Over There

[housemouse]

Some slightly sad news about Over There. I read in the LA Times today that viewership fell 41% this week from last week. That is kind of a bummer.

[doobrah]

admin said:

I thought last night's episode was okay, but I was a little confused at the end. I mean, I got that the colonol promised not to kill anyone but that they were bombing the farm anyway and that the farm was being guarded by someone with a gun so...that seems to indicate that the Iraqi lied even though the colonel said he was too proud to lie. So it was a trap for the Americans and they didn't fall into it? Or...I'm just a tad bit lost so if anyone can help me, that would be great.

I think it just shows how everyone lies and how easily it is for us to use technology to take out threats to our own. The civilian "collateral damage" becomes part of the equation.

The Col was part of Psy-Ops and we saw throughout the episode that he would do anything to accomplish the mission.

I think Dim will be (if he's not already) the figurative conscience of the series and we will learn a lot about war as he learns.

[doobrah]

housemouse said:

Some slightly sad news about Over There. I read in the LA Times today that viewership fell 41% this week from last week. That is kind of a bummer.

Definitely a bummer. Wonder what everyone else was watching?

It seems to be turning out to be a really good series, and I enjoyed last night's episode, although the gunfight seemed to drag on.

I've noticed that FX has been putting on a lot of testosterone-filled war movies as the lead-in to "Over There." Maybe it's too much war week in and week out.

[doobrah]

One of the things I meant to mention about this episode was the opening dream that the soldier who lost his leg had. It reminded me a lot of the opening sequence of the "Blind Justice" pilot. Desaturated colors, quick cuts, lots of action, etc. DP was Rick Bota of BJ fame.

[kenina]

admin said:

doobrah said:

Did anyone else notice "Leticia" was in last night episode? She was in the spouses support group and waspushing the stroller when she encouraged the guy to come back to the meetings....

I recognized her whiny voice before I realized it was her.

I DID notice that! She's kind of hard to miss. I half expected her to say "They're arresting me now!" in the middle of the meeting. *sigh* If Bochco is going to re-use his old favorites, why couldn't Ron show up from time to time? Or even just some of the other guest stars? Why pick the only one who couldn't act?

I thought last night's episode was okay, but I was a little confused at the end. I mean, I got that the colonol promised not to kill anyone but that they were bombing the farm anyway and that the farm was being guarded by someone with a gun so...that seems to indicate that the Iraqi lied even though the colonol said he was too proud to lie. So it was a trap for the Americans and they didn't fall into it? Or...I'm just a tad bit lost so if anyone can help me, that would be great.

I was moved by poor little Eddy awakening to an empty house because Dim's wife was out a'whoring. That one little tear as he fixed his own breakfast almost undid me. Also, we got to see how much Dim loves that little step-son when he told the colonol that if someone said they were going to hurt Eddy, he would give up information. I'm liking Dim a lot. Good character. Many of the others are still hard to know at this point.

Okay, shmeep, I'm following your instructions and posting about "Over There" on the board and not just reading what you have to say about it! And LOL to your comment about the actress who played Leticia. I thought she did an okay job - wasn't as annoyed by her as you, apparently. But doobrah, I recognized her voice before I did her face, too!! Too funny. I'm just happy to see any B/J connections - and there do seem to be a lot of them.

Shmeep, you need to ask my husband about the scene at the end, when they bombed the farm. Let me tell you, it is an *interesting* experience watching this show with someone who spent a year in Iraq. On that note, if anybody has questions about the show that you think he might be able to shed some light on, ask away. He loves to tell people what he thinks about the whole situation.

I am really enjoying the show - love Sprague Grayden's character, the Texas Army wife. I knew EXACTLY how she felt when she was screaming at the captain over the phone because he called four days after her husband was injured. UGH. Totally reminded me of the time I had to go up against a colonel who kept threatening not to let my husband return home three weeks before everybody else in order to take some mandatory training for his civilian career. Threatening to call your political representatives seems to work pretty well...

[housemouse]

kenina said:

Shmeep, you need to ask my husband about the scene at the end, when they bombed the farm. Let me tell you, it is an *interesting* experience watching this show with someone who spent a year in Iraq. On that note, if anybody has questions about the show that you think he might be able to shed some light on, ask away. He loves to tell people what he thinks about the whole situation.

I am very curious to know how he feels about the whole situation. I have a friend who was there as a civilian contractor for a while, and he hasn't got much to say. I would be very interested to here what a soldier has to say! Did you notice I have not tipped my hand by saying how I feel?

[kenina]

housemouse said:

kenina said:

Shmeep, you need to ask my husband about the scene at the end, when they bombed the farm. Let me tell you, it is an *interesting* experience watching this show with someone who spent a year in Iraq. On that note, if anybody has questions about the show that you think he might be able to shed some light on, ask away. He loves to tell people what he thinks about the whole situation.

I am very curious to know how he feels about the whole situation. I have a friend who was there as a civilian contractor for a while, and he hasn't got much to say. I would be very interested to here what a soldier has to say! Did you notice I have not tipped my hand by saying how I feel?

My husband has a lot to say, though not about the political stuff - just the reality of being there. He was a Civil Affairs soldier, living in Saddam's palace in Baghdad and working to rebuild the government. So he has an interesting perspective - much different than the guys depicted in the show, out in the desert.

[shmeep]

I'm having a few issues with this show. I still like it and wish it well, but some things have been starting to stand out to me.

First of all, why is Bo in Germany for so long? My understanding, from what I've read and from interviews I've seen with wounded soldiers, is that they go to Germany until they are stable enough to travel to Walter Reed. Does it seem right that soldiers with missing limbs but no other obvious injuries are starting their rehabilitation in Germany? In many of the interviews I saw, some of the patients were in the United States fairly soon after being injured--maybe a week--and many of them did not see any family until then.

And how did Bo become addicted to morphine so quickly? Don't get me wrong. I'm sure losing a leg has got to smart, but I was very close friends with an amputee who had three stump revisions after the original amputation--which basically meant she had her leg cut off four times--and she was never close to being addicted to anything. She was given just about every pain-killer known to mankind, but only enough to make it tolerable. And she was always home after a couple of days and was up and around in an incredibly short period of time. I know in the army they tend to keep the soldiers at an army facility to recover, but Bo seemed to be in bed for an awful long time.

Also, why would Bo's wife have a ramp installed at their home? For a below-the-knee amputee? He can't make it up three steps to get into the house? My above-the-knee amputee friend, who didn't own a wheelchair or wear a prosthesis most of the time, made it up and down steps all the time on her crutches--and while on chemo. A below-the-knee amputee with a prosthesis can walk as well as a biped most of the time and Bo wouldn't be going home before he was rehabilitated enough to walk normally.

As for the rest of the story, I enjoyed the dilemma of the soldiers who were faced with having to decide whether or not to kill someone they suspected of being responsible for making a certain area impassible. The moral ambiguity was well done. But...didn't it seem just a bit convenient that the guy just happened to fall outside the window after Angel shot him and happened to drop his binoculars and radio so that everyone could see that they had been right to kill him? But I really liked Angel in this one and that tear he shed at the end was quite effective. I also liked the moment when Angel told Smoke that he had more in common with "the enemy" than he had with him. Very interesting...

What was the point in the whole Leticia thing? Is she supposed to be there to tempt Mrs. B's husband? Will he prove to be morally upright when his wife--ahem--isn't? Nice portrayal of women, by the way. Doublewide and Bo's wife are good characters, although not used much, but who else do we have? Mrs. B? Dim's lovely wife? Leticia and her teeth? I'd love to see the women used more--particularly those at the front. But NOT Leticia. Sorry. I can't like her.

One very effective touch, in my opinion, is that the theme song and the credits come at the end. The song always comes as a surprise to me, even though it's the same every week, and I find it moving. It seems to illustrate a different point with each episode and it has a nice feel to it.

[maggiethecat]

You know, Shmeep, I agree with all of your points . . . and I have to say, as much as I was ready to root for anything from Steven Bochco, this show just isn't doing it for me. It doesn't make me the least bit happy to be so disappointed, either, and I have to think the viewers are bailing because it's just not keeping any of the promises made by the Pilot, or the promotions. It just seems so contrived, so predictable, so -- despite a few touches here and there -- ordinary. The minute you knew the kid played football you knew he'd lose a leg, the minute the lonely wife and lonely husband met at the support group you knew they'd head into an affair, the minute the big blond colonel promised the Iraqi kid no one would be hurt you knew they'd bomb the farm, etc, etc, etc.

And yeah, the plots are full of holes and stuff you could correct just by, oh, watching CNN. (I, too, thought the wounded are sent, at least initially, to Walter Reed for rehab. Certainly they are sent back to the States as soon as they can travel -- that's sloppy writing.) And I am also noticing a lot of "fill." I mean, could that little blond boy with the alcoholic mom walk around that apartment ANY more slowly?!

Maybe it's just that we've seen this kind of drama done before, or done better. Maybe in their avowed determination to keep this show "apolitical," the writers have been reduced to a kind of generic war movie "speak," so, in the end, what does this show really have to do specifically with Iraq? Maybe the low budget aspect is reflected in a young and untried cast that really can't act all that well. Maybe Bochco & Co should stick to what they do best, police and legal dramas!!!

Well, funny thing about that. I read online a few days ago that Bochco's two newest projects are an unnamed legal drama a la "Murder One" for Fox, and a buddy cop show about a pair of LAPD detectives for WB (talk about low budget!). So it looks as though, at least for now, the days of the beautifully made (and shot on FILM) Bochco network series is over. Too bad. But it also sounds as though SB is going back to what he does best, his roots, so to speak.

Comparisons are odious, I know, but I did say that I thought this kind of show had been done better and I suppose I should back this statement up a bit. You can't compare the material, of course, and one was high budget and one was not . . . but I was channel surfing the other night and came across a rerun of "Band of Brothers." Okay, it was produced by Spielberg & Hanks, and taken from a great book by Stephen Ambrose, but yikes! Great writing, great performances, just amazingly compelling stuff -- and I'm talking about the finely detailed small scenes, not any of the big battle scenes (well, you really can't compare the Invasion of Normandy with anything else, so I won't!). I guess I was hoping for some of that fine crafting and quality in "Over There," and I'm just not finding it.

[shmeep]

I know what you mean, Mags, but I wouldn't go so far as to say the show disappoints on all levels. Many elements of it do work, but I tend to find myself a little antsy during the first halves of the episodes--perhaps taking advantage of my lack of focus by working on that baby blanket I'm crocheting--but I always get sucked into the story by the end.

After reading Kenina's take on it--and she really has a whole other reason to find this show interesting!--I find myself wishing this show could be showing us more of THAT kind of deployment. Living in Saddam's castle! Wow. I think that would have made some seriously amazing television. I wish the stories could be more varied and creative, but there's still hope. And I'm starting to like many of the characters, now that I can tell them apart at last.

[doobrah]

I was really disappointed in last night's episode. Hey the blond kid is cute, but like you I can only watch him wander around the kitchen for so long. And talk about filler!!! I was bored with the bunker by 10:15. I'm sure I fell asleep by 10:30. Didn't even see the ramp bit -- how stupid is that?

And yeah, Germany is for the troops to get stabilized. Then they go to Walter Reed. In reality the German military hospitals are full to brim, they're movin'em out as quickly as possible to make room for the relentless stream of incoming soldiers & Marines.

Interesting thing about this war--- they've improved the torso armor so much that there are many more injured and amputees than any other war. The torso is protected so they don't die of their wounds as much as in the past, but there are so many more survivors of blast injuries. And it's not just the shrapnel. It's the energy wave from the blasts that also take off limbs. (One of our surgeons is in the forefront of body armor design to protect limbs, so I've learned a lot about force protection and what's going on on the battlefield to save lives.)

[doobrah]

maggiethecat said:

I was channel surfing the other night and came across a rerun of "Band of Brothers." Okay, it was produced by Spielberg & Hanks, and taken from a great book by Stephen Ambrose, but yikes! Great writing, great performances, just amazingly compelling stuff -- and I'm talking about the finely detailed small scenes, not any of the big battle scenes (well, you really can't compare the Invasion of Normandy with anything else, so I won't!). I guess I was hoping for some of that fine crafting and quality in "Over There," and I'm just not finding it.

Hey, you want another actor to fall for? Lt Winters is a British actor who does an impeccable American accent. His name is Damian Lewis and he played Soames in the most recent Masterpiece Theatre incarnation of "The Forsyte Saga." He is such an excellent actor and a real redhead (eat your heart out Verorl). He was also in "Dreamcatcher" which is actually a pretty good movie version of a Stephen King book.

[maggiethecat]

admin said:

After reading Kenina's take on it--and she really has a whole other reason to find this show interesting!--I find myself wishing this show could be showing us more of THAT kind of deployment. Living in Saddam's castle! Wow. I think that would have made some seriously amazing television.

Yeah, that would be terrific -- but Saddam's castle doesn't exactly fit the low budget "we're shooting this in a California desert with minimal sets because no one knows what Iraq looks like, anyway" aspects of the show! Sigh. As I've said, they seem so determined to keep the show apolitical -- and therefore not offend or stir up any kind of controversy -- that they're stuck with generic war/home front stuff, although they are starting to develop the characters more. Odd, when you think about it, since Bochco has never been one to avoid controversy and play it safe.

YOur take on the ramp was hilarious -- and "absolutely right." ;D

[maggiethecat]

[quote author=doobrah board=tvtalk thread=1122558688 post=1124379764Hey, you want another actor to fall for? Lt Winters is a British actor who does an impeccable American accent. His name is Damian Lewis and he played Soames in the most recent Masterpiece Theatre incarnation of "The Forsyte Saga." He is such an excellent actor and a real redhead (eat your heart out Verorl). He was also in "Dreamcatcher" which is actually a pretty good movie version of a Stephen King book.[/quote]

LOVE Damien Lewis . . . what an actor! He was so irredeemably and effectively slimy as Soames I was quite unpropared for how wonderful and humane he was as Lt. Winters in "Band of Brothers." Did you catch the real Lt. Dick Winters in the documentaries attendant to Bof B? Not that I have a yen for 80 year old men but if I did . . . honey, he'd be the one. There's a whole website dedicated to getting Winters the Congressional Medal of Honor for his amazing actions and leadership on D-Day. Veeeeeery cool guy.

[kytdunne]

kytdunne said:

So far, am liking this one

I'm giving up on this one. Still looks interesting, but I haven't been drawn into it enough to make the effort to watch it each week. And what little bits I'm catching now, aren't pulling me in to find out more.

Kyt