I think it is time...

[housemouse]

Now that everyone has had a chance to sound off about she who must be obeyed, I think the time has come. Take a deep breath and think for a moment... does Marty Russo have a mean streak or is he simply an alpha male defending his turf.

I have always come down firmly on the side of Marty having a meanstreak. There are just so many examples of him saying things just to get Jim's dander up. If that is not a mean streak I don't know what is.

Let's get to it people, it is time to analyze.

[Eyphur]

I'm not sure what it is but my (Current and subject to change) opinion is that it's something slightly less than a mean streak. Maybe one step down?

[carl1951]

He is a "pip squeek." Probably the first one to run home after school yelling for mommy after somebody popped him in the nose.

Later,
Alpha Carl

[carl1951]

......and one more thing: Russo reminds me of the middle blond girl in the Brady Bunch "Marsha, Marsha, Marsha it's always, Marsha.

Russo, paraphrasing: Dunbar, Dunbar, Dunbar, it's always Dunbar.

Later, Carl

[bjobsessed]

I never thought Marty had a mean streak. In the beginning, he was definitely antagonistic and resentful of having a blind cop at his precinct. I think he further resented and despised the fact that Jim was carrying a gun. Like so many people I've met, he was not prepared to look past the disability and see Jim for what he was--a cop who still had a lot to offer. He was a person first and blind second. I think it took Marty a long time to see that. By Doggone, he is genuinely upset that Jim is missing and also asks Jim if he is ok. This shows how far the relationship between Jim and Marty has come since the pilot.

Marty may have always been a smart aleck and a bit of a thorn in Jim's side. I think that was his character. Every show has a character or two you love to hate--although I really grew to like Marty. Speaking from experience, you can get most people to respect you in time even if they don't like you. I think Marty and Jim were slowly learning to respect one another and may have even become friends--not buddies, but friends.

Oh to see what would have happened.

[carl1951]

But never pals.

Also, that is why I am glad there are talented writers to give us the second season.

Later, Carl

[doobrah]

You really want to re-open this can of worms? You want to do this NOW?

(Sorry, couldn't resist inserting a Dunbarism! ;D )

I have always thought Marty is just a smart aleck, rude, uninhibited, teller of inappropriate jokes, etc. Alpha, too? Sure!

He was the alpha before Jim arrived. Now he's a beta to the blind dude, despite Jim's apparently seniority and experience. And like dogs locked in a barn, Marty wants to fight it out to regain his alpha status.

The characters were too multi-dimensional for Marty to have a mean streak. In a lesser actor, possibly. But no more than Jim was a saint, was Marty mean. Incredibly rude and callous, but not mean.

And Marty's character is there to provide the conflict needed to sustain good drama. And boy was it good!

And as the season went on we got to see the nuances of Marty's character, the good side, too. I loved that we could continue to be surprised by this complex guy -- like in "Doggone" when he offers to play the blind guy, and later kicks the desk when he learns that Hank is missing.

That's all I'm gonna say -- no nastygrams, please, trying to bait me into arguing the point.

[dogma]

doobrah said:

He was the alpha before Jim arrived. Now he's a beta to the blind dude, despite Jim's apparently seniority and experience. And like dogs locked in a barn, Marty wants to fight it out to regain his alpha status.

i think marty suffers from short man syndrome,, he's short ( every other key male character is taller than him ) and he's a man,,,

[inuvik]

I think it's both (good Canadian that I am, sitting on the fence is one of my strong points )

I think basically he is defending his turf, feeling insecure and mad. That would explain his comments that Dunbar needs to be part of a team, communicate, work with others, etc.

However, deliberately putting chairs in Dunbar's path--that sort of thing is just mean, and cannot be excused. What is this, kindergarten?

So definitely, a little of both.

[greenbeing]

I never got the impression Marty was a bad guy. I didn't get to see the show until... Leap of Faith? I came a little late to the party, but we have the federal government to thank for it! Jury duty got me out of working Tuesdays for a while. So I think Doggone was the second eppie I saw, and he totally redeems himself in that.

By the time I saw the beginning episodes, I knew Marty redeemed himself, so I knew to look for those little moments of compassion, like when he tells Jim that if anything were to happen to Karen, he'd make it his life's work to see him off the job. (And I didn't think he left his chair out on purpose that once.)

It's not so much against Jim as for everyone else. An overgrown sense of responsibility for his co-workers? Like in Doggone, maybe he really thought Jim's well-being was up to him and blamed himself for losing him? Which meant he'd accepted Jim as one of them by then, because he was willing to take responsibility for Jim and make sure he came out okay, too.

Yes, he's a hard-ass, doesn't really know how to express himself and his feelings. His way of showing affection is probably to pick on people and try to make them better people themselves. I always liked Marty.


Mean streak? No. I think he's making sure Jim can do his job. Alpha male? Not so much, but he's not about to let Jim slip into that position just because he's been a detective longer. (They are a team, he's not going to jump on the Jim bandwagon and bow down.) I think it all comes down to Marty taking it upon himself to make sure the PD didn't make a huge mistake with this guy. He's not overly trusting.

I have to agree, forget who said it, but Marty is a very complex character. And I think, if their situations were reversed, that Jim would be a lot like him. I think Jim totally agreed with the statement of if anything had happened to Karen. "If anything happened to Karen, Marty, I'd help you get me off the job, too." All he wanted was a chance, and if he couldn't cut it, he'd leave. I think it would kill Jim if anything happened to Karen.

My vote is neither. If Marty respects you, he'll stand up for you no matter what, like with Carl Desmond. And Jim hadn't pissed him off. If he had, that woulda been a big fight. But all it came down to, a good reason they didn't fight, was Marty wasn't mad at him so much, just didn't trust him.

--GB

[shmeep]

I like Marty.

[shmeep]

Sorry. My last post was just me feeling a little cheeky. I guess I'll play along and answer the question.

greenbeing said:

My vote is neither.

And my vote is both.

I suspect Marty was a little territorial in the squad, so the appearance of a superior detective who shouldn't, in Marty's opinion, have even been working but who was clearing more cases than anyone had to be threatening. Alpha Male? I don't know if I'd go that far, since Marty was big on teamwork. But whether he had fought for the position of Alpha Male in the past or whether it had just naturally come to him, he was the obvious Alpha Male before Jim's introduction into the squad.

Mean Streak? That's all a matter of perspective. Some of what he said and did was certainly not nice, but mean is a relative concept. To a more sensitive person, such behavior can be extremely hurtful, but Marty also had something kind about him and he knew when to be mean and when not to be. While he challenged Jim with everything he had in the beginning, was he not also testing him out to see if he was tough enough to do the job? Marty's respect had to be won the hard way and eventually, it was. He was cruel during the testing process, but he never kicked Jim when he was down once Jim's place in the squad had been established. Doggone, Under the Gun, Fancy Footwork...Marty proved his loyalty repeatedly and he even respected Jim enough to lay out the facts when others were afraid to.

And I don't agree that they could never have been buddies. With so much in common and a new mutual respect growing between them, they could have been great buddies eventually. Just my opinion.

[hoosier]

I really don't think Marty has a mean streak--sure he's cocky, arrogant,confident and irritating! Here is this new guy coming into the squad right in the middle of a serial killer case. They had all heard of Jim Dunbar, what he had done etc. but how was he supposed to fit in? Sure he was great when he could see but now??? Maybe he was just testing Jim, seeing how far he could push him before he would retaliate or see if he would just fold. Using the analogy of the pack, since Marty clearly saw himself as top dog, he had to see where Jim would fit into the pecking order so he wanted to size him up. Marty seems to have no problem with Jim's ability to solve cases--envious perhaps--and the only real niggling points were the gun and I think to a certain extent, his blindness. He reiterated the point to Karen and Tom that Jim was on modified assignment because he is blind. He had safety concerns not only for them but the public at large.

[housemouse]

I still believe Marty has a prominent mean streak. We see examples of this not only in his dealings with Jim, but in his dealings with others. Look at how he treated Bostick in Dance with Me. There was no need for him to be so nasty and disrespectful, he just wanted to. By this time Jim had proven himself, or more precisely, stood up to Marty's bullying and showed he wasn't going to take it. Because of that, Marty hadn't gotten to pick on anyone in a while. He was ripe for a confrontation when Bostick came along.

Marty is mean. He was mean to Jim - a blind hero no less - from the get go. It wasn't about him trying to retain his status as leader of the pack, it was about him being mean. Draw a map on his face, my bad, two dogs fighting it out - all mean! Even in Under the Gun after he and Jim had apparently made peace, Marty can't resist getting in his digs. "What was that about Dunbar?" and "Didn't I call this, day one?" He did not call it by the way, I don't remember Marty saying anything about Jim losing his gun after a bar room brawl then worrying it might have been used to kill a high school student.

Marty is a bully. He figured that Jim had fought so hard to be reinstated he was tired and wouldn't fight when Marty bullied him. He was wrong. Mean, mean, mean. Marty, although he might be a basically good guy, has a mean streak.

Now, give me another couple thousand karma points and we'll call it a day.

[carl1951]

If Marty wants to be an "Alpha Male", he'll have to eat more "Alphabits" in the morning.
Later, Carl