Ah, the Scenes We Never Saw . . .

[maggiethecat]

Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away . . . okay, it was the old Blind Justifications board, where we all met, and from which most of us fled happily to Beyond Justice when we were banned. Back in the day, I was rather chummy with one of the founders of said board (an unforgiving soul I often referred to as She Who Must Be Obeyed, or, I confess, worse), who favored me with some deleted bits of Blind Justice scripts she’d snagged from her screenwriting agency. After I was banned from the Justifications board for my inability to recognize the true importance of ballroom dancing in the spiritual development of one tough-as-nails NYPD detective, I deleted all her emails one night in a fit of pique. But I do have a killer memory. Here’s the cut stuff, and very interesting it is, too.

This came from the scene in The Pilot where Jim and Karen are in the car and she hits him with Anne Donnelly.



The deleted line of Karen’s was – and oh, baby, what a line! -- "Not only Anne. I hear you were banging every woman in the 2-5," which was followed by Jim's line about how he'd been going through a bad time in his marriage, etc. Stronger stuff than we got on the air, wouldn't you say?

The other cut was in "Rub a Tub Tub.” We start when Jim barks his shin on the desk drawer Marty left out of position.



Karen notices the bloodstain on his trousers, and then we have the scene in the locker room. As aired, we just see Jim dab at his bloody shin with a paper towel, while Karen is outside asking him if he's all right. (What? No screencap of the bloody shin? Sigh.) No additional dialogue here, but as originally written there was a meaningful close-up of Jim's battered shin, covered with layer upon layer of old scars and bruises from a year of bashing into things as he adjusted to blindness, and not always gracefully. Originally, Jim also had a supply in his locker of antiseptic wipes and bandages, which he used to stanch the bleeding in the longer version of this quick little scene. As originally intended, this was infinitely sadder and more telling than what we saw.

So you have to wonder . . . what else was cut? If they hadn't wasted precious seconds on those drawn-out opening credits, what else could we have seen? Considering that the entire shoot-out at the bank times at a minute and forty seconds . . . aah, just imagine the possibilities.

Sort of like imagining what this show could have been on a cable channel like F/X or HBO. Amazing the dark and gritty feel the creators managed to get into a network show, but on cable? How satisfying -- and realistic -- it would have been to hear Dunbar come out with a good healthy expletive when he bonked into that damned desk drawer!

[anna]

I bought some bits of the Fancy Footwork script when they were available on Showfax.

When Jim and Karen first went to the Amsterdam Gym, the original dialogue went like this.

Jim: Long time since I've been in a gym.
Karen: You a fighter? Kid Dunbar?
Jim: I had a middleweight belt from a P.A.L. Smoker and I fought in the Golden Gloves.
Karen: Get out.
Jim: Back when I was in uniform. Hearing these sounds, it's like I can see it.
(Which, she notes, he says with a twinge of melancholy.)

In the final meeting between Jim and Bo, there was this dialogue.

Jim: I used to box, amateur level. And one day I was sparring with this kid named Julio Saldana and I ended up getting whupped. Afterwards, I was taking my tape off and you came over to me. I knew who you were. This was . . . '88? You had watched the match. And you told me I was fighting with my heart but not with my head. I blew it out too early and Julio withstood those flurries and then moved in when I was spent. You told me I need to think more, breathe more.
Bo: I think I remember that, yeah.
(He doesn't. He just wants to get out.)
Jim: I appreciated the advice, Bo. And it's been a long time but I'm gonna return the favor right now. I know you're on the balls of your ass, I know your cut of fifty grand sounds like a lot of money - but I also know any advice you're getting is from people who can make a buck off you.


I thought it was interesting that they originally included so much that referred to Eldard's own boxing experience - Golden Gloves, 1988 - and I wondered who decided to cut it - Eldard or the director?

[doobrah]

maggiethecat said:

Sort of like imagining what this show could have been on a cable channel like F/X or HBO. Amazing the dark and gritty feel the creators managed to get into a network show, but on cable? How satisfying -- and realistic -- it would have been to hear Dunbar come out with a good healthy expletive when he bonked into that damned desk drawer!

My fear is that on FX, we would have had a Carver-like serial killer, or one of the regulars loses a leg. Can you imagine an "over There" treatment of Jim when he bonks his leg into the desk drawer? They amputate it.

Seriously, appreciate the insight into the missing dialogue/scenes. WOW!

[Deleted]

maggiethecat said:

Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away . . . okay, it was the old Blind Justifications board, where we all met, and from which most of us fled happily to Beyond Justice when we were banned.

Karma for you! I, too, am now banned.

[inuvik]

That board is no longer in existence--the address just goes to the Proboards homepage.

I always thought it was a shame that Z. is not on this board (as far as we know anyway!). I enjoyed her insightful comments. Maybe if she is not an administrator she would be better.

For those who know her, has anyone told her about this board and/or invited her?

[maggiethecat]

inuvik said:

That board is no longer in existence--the address just goes to the Proboards homepage.

I always thought it was a shame that Z. is not on this board (as far as we know anyway!). I enjoyed her insightful comments. Maybe if she is not an administrator she would be better.

For those who know her, has anyone told her about this board and/or invited her?

How can I put this delicately?

Inuvik, you may be the only one who didn't experience her wrath. Insightful though some of her comments may have been, the problem with Z. was that after a while it became obvious that she was intolerant of the opinions of others. "It's a television show and that means it's fiction and not real," "We're just having fun here," and "It's only my opinion" were three statements she rejected, utterly, in the heat of an argument. And she was all about arguing. We're about celebrating and having fun, playing around with a little brain candy, and creating a community of like-minded individuals who enjoy each other. We are not -- and I'm speaking for myself here and not the administrators of this board -- about winning, in any sense of the word.

PLEASE don't tell her we're here. I don't want to slam anyone, and I'm not about to tell tales out of school, but, truly, many of us are here simply because she is not. Personally? I'd like to keep it that way!

[housemouse]

maggiethecat said:

inuvik said:

We're just having fun here," and "It's only my opinion" were three statements she rejected, utterly, in the heat of an argument. And she was all about arguing. We're about celebrating and having fun, playing around with a little brain candy, and creating a community of like-minded individuals who enjoy each other. We are not -- and I'm speaking for myself here and not the administrators of this board -- about winning, in any sense of the word.

I'm don't know about Shmeep, but I am ALL about winning. Now how about some karma - you have pulled ahead of me. ;D

[maggiethecat]

housemouse said:

I'm don't know about Shmeep, but I am ALL about winning. Now how about some karma - you have pulled ahead of me. ;D

How did that happen, Mouse? Karma for you, and right now.

And I know you're gently teasing me, since winning has everything to do with discussing and nothing to do with arguing. And we discuss . . . like our never-ending (hope it never ends) back and forth about Galloway and Jim's remark about Terry blowing it at the bank . . . !

[shmeep]

maggiethecat said:

housemouse said:

I'm don't know about Shmeep, but I am ALL about winning. Now how about some karma - you have pulled ahead of me. ;D

How did that happen, Mouse? Karma for you, and right now.

I like to win too! It's all about the win! Are we talking about karma now? Because no one seems to like me anymore...

[bjobsessed]

Shmeep I just gave you a karma so now you are tied with Maggie. I'll do the same for you Housemouse as soon as it let's me. Reason? Just because I'm enjoying this little exchange.

[inuvik]

maggiethecat said:

Inuvik, you may be the only one who didn't experience her wrath. Insightful though some of her comments may have been, the problem with Z. was that after a while it became obvious that she was intolerant of the opinions of others. "It's a television show and that means it's fiction and not real," "We're just having fun here," and "It's only my opinion" were three statements she rejected, utterly, in the heat of an argument. And she was all about arguing. We're about celebrating and having fun, playing around with a little brain candy, and creating a community of like-minded individuals who enjoy each other. We are not -- and I'm speaking for myself here and not the administrators of this board -- about winning, in any sense of the word.

PLEASE don't tell her we're here. I don't want to slam anyone, and I'm not about to tell tales out of school, but, truly, many of us are here simply because she is not. Personally? I'd like to keep it that way!

Not to worry. I don't know who she is or how to contact her so couldn't even if I wanted to! (which I don't).

It's true she never slammed me personally. However, I still think with her not an administrator, she wouldn't/couldn't do that. And if she did, then she could be banned. But everyone deserves another chance!

I just thought in the spirit of charity we could tell her about the board. Forgive and forget so to speak?

But whatever the board as a whole feels, of course.

[shmeep]

inuvik said:

maggiethecat said:

Inuvik, you may be the only one who didn't experience her wrath. Insightful though some of her comments may have been, the problem with Z. was that after a while it became obvious that she was intolerant of the opinions of others. "It's a television show and that means it's fiction and not real," "We're just having fun here," and "It's only my opinion" were three statements she rejected, utterly, in the heat of an argument. And she was all about arguing. We're about celebrating and having fun, playing around with a little brain candy, and creating a community of like-minded individuals who enjoy each other. We are not -- and I'm speaking for myself here and not the administrators of this board -- about winning, in any sense of the word.

PLEASE don't tell her we're here. I don't want to slam anyone, and I'm not about to tell tales out of school, but, truly, many of us are here simply because she is not. Personally? I'd like to keep it that way!

Not to worry. I don't know who she is or how to contact her so couldn't even if I wanted to! (which I don't).

It's true she never slammed me personally. However, I still think with her not an administrator, she wouldn't/couldn't do that. And if she did, then she could be banned. But everyone deserves another chance!

I just thought in the spirit of charity we could tell her about the board. Forgive and forget so to speak?

But whatever the board as a whole feels, of course.

I understand that perspective and I have toyed with similar thoughts myself, but my gut tells me that it really is better to leave well enough alone. She abandoned her board, along with all of us. From my understanding, she is completely uninterested in what we have to say and would not care to join even if we were to ask her. I never personally had a conflict with her, but she has hurt many people at this board. I don't think she'd care to post here if she didn't have administrative control, but even if she did, I want everyone here to feel that this is a place to have fun. I would hate for it to get ugly when that can so easily be avoided. As for a second chance? Beautiful idea and one I would typically support but...ask all the people who were banned from her board if she was all about the second chances.

[maggiethecat]

admin said:

As for a second chance? Beautiful idea and one I would typically support but...ask all the people who were banned from her board if she was all about the second chances.

Amen, O Shmeep, and here's more karma for your supportive words. Anyone know the old adage? "Fool me once, shame on you: fool me twice, shame on me."

While Z -- She Who Must Not Be Named -- behaved nastily to many of us in the public forum of the old board, trust me on this, Inuvik, her behavior behind the scenes was even more reprehensible. Banning people left and right (even the woman with whom she had co-founded the board, for trying to reinstate an unfairly banned member), shooting off long, hateful letters in the middle of the night, deleting posts that didn't follow her perceptions of Blind Justice. Arrogant hardly scratches the surface. Intolerant comes closer. Psychotic might cover it.

Another old adage? "Let sleeping dogs lie."

Besides, we've got more than enough smart people around here to offer insightful comments! On just about any subject you could name, too.

[housemouse]

maggiethecat said:

admin said:

As for a second chance? Beautiful idea and one I would typically support but...ask all the people who were banned from her board if she was all about the second chances.

Amen, O Shmeep, and here's more karma for your supportive words. Anyone know the old adage? "Fool me once, shame on you: fool me twice, shame on me."

While Z -- She Who Must Not Be Named -- behaved nastily to many of us in the public forum of the old board, trust me on this, Inuvik, her behavior behind the scenes was even more reprehensible. Banning people left and right (even the woman with whom she had co-founded the board, for trying to reinstate an unfairly banned member), shooting off long, hateful letters in the middle of the night, deleting posts that didn't follow her perceptions of Blind Justice. Arrogant hardly scratches the surface. Intolerant comes closer. Psychotic might cover it.

Another old adage? "Let sleeping dogs lie."

Besides, we've got more than enough smart people around here to offer insightful comments! On just about any subject you could name, too.

Yes, yes no second chances, but the really important thing here? Shmeep and Maggie each have two more "karma's" than I do. You want some insightful discourse? Karma me up baby and I'll discuss (almost) anything you want!

[Deleted]

inuvik said:

maggiethecat said:

Inuvik, you may be the only one who didn't experience her wrath. Insightful though some of her comments may have been, the problem with Z. was that after a while it became obvious that she was intolerant of the opinions of others. "It's a television show and that means it's fiction and not real," "We're just having fun here," and "It's only my opinion" were three statements she rejected, utterly, in the heat of an argument. And she was all about arguing. We're about celebrating and having fun, playing around with a little brain candy, and creating a community of like-minded individuals who enjoy each other. We are not -- and I'm speaking for myself here and not the administrators of this board -- about winning, in any sense of the word.

PLEASE don't tell her we're here. I don't want to slam anyone, and I'm not about to tell tales out of school, but, truly, many of us are here simply because she is not. Personally? I'd like to keep it that way!

Not to worry. I don't know who she is or how to contact her so couldn't even if I wanted to! (which I don't).

It's true she never slammed me personally. However, I still think with her not an administrator, she wouldn't/couldn't do that. And if she did, then she could be banned. But everyone deserves another chance!

I just thought in the spirit of charity we could tell her about the board. Forgive and forget so to speak?

But whatever the board as a whole feels, of course.

I suffered the wrath - I am here (thank GOD) as a result and I am friends with people on this board and friends with those who have suffered "the wrath." Which seems kind of silly in a way to call it that. Frankly, anyone who has to put another down truly shows such insecurity in themselves and with whom they choose to deal - her so-called writing partner on another board is just the same way - insecure and controlling - which is why I am no longer there. Good riddance to bad BAD karma!!!!!