Week of March 22 - Rub a Tub Tub

[mlm828]

Welcome to the third week of the re-watch -- time for that "whiny liar" Mary Beth Desmond, furniture issues, Sonny the snitch, the "cologne line-up," and the mulligan.

[maggiethecat]

Eek! Tempis is a-fugitin', and I haven't even done my Pilot re-watch yet. Thank heavens everyone around here is so forgiving.

[mlm828]

Sorry about that, mags, but time and the re-watch wait for no one. At least you'll have fun catching up.

[mlm828]

I did have a chance to watch "Rub a Tub Tub" over the weekend, so I'll start.

It's no secret that one of my favorite lines in the series is delivered in this episode -- Karen to Sonny: "What d'you think he's been doing for the past year, following Jimmy Buffet around the country?"

I thought three years ago, and I still think today, it was a bad idea to show Jim "sniffing out" clues in each of the first three episodes. It seemed like a cliche and even caused confusion in some viewers as to whether he was supposed to have "Daredevil"-like super senses. And I still think it's far-fetched that Jim could recognize Eric's cologne, hours after Eric was in the apartment. But Jim recognizing Eric's "obnoxious cologne" did lead to a moment of high drama, when Jim tells Karen that if she doesn't trust him, there's no point in their going forward:



Watching that scene this weekend, I was struck with how ballsy a move it was on Jim's part. He's giving Karen an ultimatum, and he's not in a position to be giving ultimatums to anyone. What's he going to do if she says, "You're out of your mind, I'm not going there"? Go back to Fisk and demand a new partner?

For some reason, I found the "mulligan" scene more touching when I re-watched it this weekend than I had on previous viewings of the episode. I especially liked the way Christie was skeptical at first -- and knew exactly how long it had been since Jim had brought her flowers, then finally admitted he was worth it. Nice.

[hoosier]

One thing I always wondered was how Carl stayed so clean in the dumpster? I know he had been wrapped in plastic but after being tossed from one dumpster into the back of a garbage truck you think he would have been a little worse for wear but his clothes look crisp and he appears to be as fresh as a daisy. Plus, Mary Beth must be an Amazon to have gotten Carl out of the tub, cleaned and dressed before Eric arrived (since Eric said all he did was dispose of the body...and the murder weapon.) Mary Beth was lucky the bullet did not exit Carl's head or she would have had some explaining to do about the hole in the bathroom tile!

I thought it strange that no one seemed to question the conflicting stories about the Desmonds marital arrangement--it was either that they had a "don't ask, don't tell" (Mary Beth) or Carl was being "overly obsessed" (Eric) . Red flag, anyone?

Scenes--when Jim comes in and bangs into the open drawer of Marty's desk;meeting Sonny; the confrontation in the locker room; the zinger about the dandruff shampoo; Karen stressing that both their reputations were on the line.

Mlm mentioned the final scene. Initially, (standing up for Jimmy) I had thought Christie had been too quick to accuse him of regifting then I realized she just wanted to be sure that he did it "just" for her not as some after-thought. She was very perceptive, picking up on the reason for the mulligan story and assuring him that he "was worth it."

[hoosier]

I found myself wondering, again, if Jim had had more than one affair. Reviewing the Pilot made me think so. Did the writers change their mind on him being a "serial philanderer"? His saying that he "would never do that again" and Christie's "I can't go through that again" seems to point in that direction.

Or is Jim a consummate liar and Christie really that naive? Is he truly sincere when he promises never to do it again? How much has Jim really changed? Did he give her the flowers just because he felt guilty after talking with Galloway or because he really did want to make amends for his behavior at the party and afterwards? And the mulligan for the past year? Admitting that he had been difficult, demanding, argumentative? That he was sorry for being indifferent and less than sensitive toward her feelings? If he was coming clean, would he have gone so far as to have admitted to another affair? Would this have come out in couple's counseling? By the end of the show, we seem pretty sure that all will work out for Jim and Christie. If something else had been lurking in the wings, this might not have been the case.

[mlm828]

hoosier said:

I thought it strange that no one seemed to question the conflicting stories about the Desmonds marital arrangement--it was either that they had a "don't ask, don't tell" (Mary Beth) or Carl was being "overly obsessed" (Eric) . Red flag, anyone?

Good point -- detectives always look for inconsistencies, so it should have been a red flag.

hoosier said:

I found myself wondering, again, if Jim had had more than one affair. Reviewing the Pilot made me think so. Did the writers change their mind on him being a "serial philanderer"? His saying that he "would never do that again" and Christie's "I can't go through that again" seems to point in that direction.

Based on Karen's deleted line about Jim hitting on every woman at the 2-5 (or words to that effect), I think they did decide against making him a serial philanderer. I also think Christie would not have stayed in the marriage if Jim had had multiple affairs, and she knew about them. She probably wouldn't have stayed with him, knowing about one affair, if he hadn't been shot. I suppose it's possible that there were two affairs: one with Anne Donnelly, which Karen knew about, and one with an unnamed woman, which Christie knew about. But this is pure speculation.

hoosier said:

Or is Jim a consummate liar and Christie really that naive? Is he truly sincere when he promises never to do it again? How much has Jim really changed? Did he give her the flowers just because he felt guilty after talking with Galloway or because he really did want to make amends for his behavior at the party and afterwards? And the mulligan for the past year? Admitting that he had been difficult, demanding, argumentative? That he was sorry for being indifferent and less than sensitive toward her feelings? If he was coming clean, would he have gone so far as to have admitted to another affair?

Jim is a good liar, as demonstrated by his tricking Lyman in the Pilot with the hairs supposedly found by the ME, and his glib lie to Karen about where he had been at the beginning of "Past Imperfect," when he had his "man-to-man" talk with Nick. However, I think his promise at the end of this episode is sincere -- at least at the time he makes it. After Christie's comment that she couldn't go through that again, I doubt he would have admitted another affair, if there was one.

hoosier said:

By the end of the show, we seem pretty sure that all will work out for Jim and Christie. If something else had been lurking in the wings, this might not have been the case.

At the end of the series, I wasn't sure that things would work out for them. They seemed to be headed in the right direction, and both of them seemed committed to working on their problems. But it wasn't a sure thing, in my opinion.

[rducasey]

I'm looking at this from a different angle. While watching this tonight, I remembered back when I saw it for the first time. Before you become familiar with characters on a favorite tv show, you sometimes have different impressions of them early on.

Rub a Tub Tub...This was the episode that I really started to feel sorry for Rena.....not Christie. Watching it tonight, I remembered how I would think....that poor girl...whatever her name is....has such a small part. I remembered that the first few episodes she only appeared in a few scenes, and now in RATT, only one scene at the end. I even remembered thinking back then,,why would she want such a small role, (then of course remembering who she would wake up next to, would certainly compensate for the small part). I even had such thoughts then that perhaps she only had to come to the set for one day to tape her part. I think I even wondered if she would continue to be in it each week since it was a police drama- The spouses at home often get forgotten. It took me a while to realize that their relationship was such a big part of the series. To realize that this was not just a police show.

Also (and I hate to admit this) I had no idea who played Jim Dunbar at this point. I was not very internet savvy, and would never had thought to google him. I hardly used a computer at that time. Kathy and I always laugh when I tell her that I did not even know Ron's name until the fourth episode. I seriously would think about the show during the week and think, "Wow I do like that Blind Justice show....i must remember to look again at who plays the part of the blind detective,," Often my husband would be cruising through other channels at the beginning of the episode, before he gave up, and let me put on 'my show", so I guess I would miss the credits. Well it took me until episode 4 before I knew his name.

While watching it tonight- a few notes:
I often wondered why Karen did not warn him about the moved desk,,,surely she could see where he was heading. Tonight I noticed she was actually looking down at her desk as she was saying good morning to him.

I always hated the cow bells comment by Marty, and wondered how Jim kept from punching him. But also feel they stand much too close in that scene. Marty could have punched him for getting too close.



A lot of uncomfortable moments for Jim in this episode, whether it was Eric telling him he was just trying to prove he was still a "bad ass cop".

Or the Circus/cologne/"you're on your own" exchange with the squad.


One of my favorite moments though is in this episode. I always love how he laughs in Galloway's office when he talks of the dinner party fight. "oh we just had some words" and he laughs...Yes, easy to laugh now but he really feared losing her a few nights earlier.

And who could not love the final scene. It left me smiling. I believed him,,,,,hook line and sinker. "I would never do that again. I promise"...... He had me right there.

[inuvik]

Karma for sharing all your thoughts! And this made me laugh:

rducasey said:

Also (and I hate to admit this) I had no idea who played Jim Dunbar at this point.

Well, you have made up for lost time now.

(I also had never heard of Eldard until this show).

[bjobsessed]

inuvik said:

Karma for sharing all your thoughts! And this made me laugh:

rducasey said:

Also (and I hate to admit this) I had no idea who played Jim Dunbar at this point.

Well, you have made up for lost time now.

(I also had never heard of Eldard until this show).

I watched ER for years and saw him as Shep, but I didn't have a clue who he was either. In fact, I didn't even recognize him as "the guy from ER." Guess I wasn't any different from most people back then.

[mlm828]

rducasey said:

I often wondered why Karen did not warn him about the moved desk, surely she could see where he was heading. Tonight I noticed she was actually looking down at her desk as she was saying good morning to him.

As you may recall, there was an extensive discussion of this point in the original "Rub a Tub Tub" thread. I'm not sure any of the other detectives was looking at Jim at the actual moment of impact, but surely they must have known he was on a collision course. As was stated before, they might have become used to Jim's being able to navigate around the squad room independently, but it seems too soon for them to have forgotten he couldn't see an obstacle in his path. So why didn't anyone warn him?

rducasey said:

One of my favorite moments though is in this episode. I always love how he laughs in Galloway's office when he talks of the dinner party fight. "oh we just had some words" and he laughs...Yes, easy to laugh now but he really feared losing her a few nights earlier.

I never thought Jim was really laughing in that scene. It always seemed like a nervous, defensive laugh, trying to minimize or cover up just how serious their fight had been.

[hoosier]

rducasey said:

I always hated the cow bells comment by Marty, and wondered how Jim kept from punching him. But also feel they stand much too close in that scene. Marty could have punched him for getting too close.

Maybe Jim needed some instruction in the meaning of "personal space" I always thought he got that close so Marty could not duck out and would be forced to listen to him. You know Jim had to have been seething after the bell comment so his self-restraint was admirable.

And I think Jim was also doing a "little song and dance" for Galloway, understating just how bad the situation was between him and Christie. More of a misunderstanding rather than the hurtful barbs they had thrown at each other.

[Chris]

So, here's my random thoughts about Rub a Tub Tub.

I didn't tape the three first eps so for a long time I couldn't re watch them. Eventually I downloaded the audio descriptions so somehow these three eps feels different for me because for a long time I had to imagine what was going on.

No RTT without discussions about Jim banging into Marty's open desk drawer and Marty being snide.

I don't think leaving the desk out was intentional on Marty's part. He moved the desk because he had dropped a quarter (I agree Tom, he's cheap!! : and I think he had genuinely forgotten about the open desk drawer. Karen and Tom were not watching Jim entering the squad and even though I think Marty was, I don't think he for one second considered the need for warning Jim. Jim skirted the desk without problems and if the drawer had been closed nothing would have happened. If Marty (and Tom and Karen) had indeed forgotten about the open drawer they may have been careless since they didn't warn Jim about the desk but I don't think there was anything malicious about it on Marty's part.

Having said that, that comment he made about the cow bells is just plain out of line!!!! It's mean, it's extremely rude and Jim should have punched him in the face for it.

hoosier said:

I thought it strange that no one seemed to question the conflicting stories about the Desmonds marital arrangement--it was either that they had a "don't ask, don't tell" (Mary Beth) or Carl was being "overly obsessed" (Eric) . Red flag, anyone?

Maybe Mary Beth and Carl DID have a "Don't ask, don't tell" arrangement at first but somewhere along the line Carl found out what Mary Beth was really doing, that she had numerous affairs so eventually he became jealous and even "overly obsessed" with it.
A don't ask, don't tell arrangement might mean that if you happen to have an affair don't tell me, but I'm not sure it's necessarily a license to having multiple affairs.
Carl being "overly obsessed" would have been much more important had it been Mary Beth who had been murdered and not Carl.

Gotta go, back later with more random thoughts.

- Chris

[Chris]

Where was I... Oh, right....

mlm828 said:

Jim is a good liar, as demonstrated by his tricking Lyman in the Pilot with the hairs supposedly found by the ME, and his glib lie to Karen about where he had been at the beginning of "Past Imperfect," when he had his "man-to-man" talk with Nick. However, I think his promise at the end of this episode is sincere -- at least at the time he makes it. After Christie's comment that she couldn't go through that again, I doubt he would have admitted another affair, if there was one.

One thing I've noticed is that a few times when Jim tells a lie he claims he "got a phone call." He tells Nick that he received a phone call about his sordid past when he's confronting him in Past Imperfect and that's also how he knows Mary Beth cheated on Carl. Or at least that's what he tells her. I think he tells the same lie once more but right now I can't recall in which episode.

I had completely forgotten until I read this but I felt exactly the same way back then:

rducasey said:

Rub a Tub Tub...This was the episode that I really started to feel sorry for Rena.....not Christie. Watching it tonight, I remembered how I would think....that poor girl...whatever her name is....has such a small part. I remembered that the first few episodes she only appeared in a few scenes, and now in RATT, only one scene at the end. I even remembered thinking back then,,why would she want such a small role, (then of course remembering who she would wake up next to, would certainly compensate for the small part). I even had such thoughts then that perhaps she only had to come to the set for one day to tape her part. I think I even wondered if she would continue to be in it each week since it was a police drama- The spouses at home often get forgotten. It took me a while to realize that their relationship was such a big part of the series. To realize that this was not just a police show.

And I didn't know who Ron was either. I had seen him as Shep in ER and I remember watching The Last Supper years ago but I can't remember paying much attention to Ron's character.

mlm828 said:

For some reason, I found the "mulligan" scene more touching when I re-watched it this weekend than I had on previous viewings of the episode. I especially liked the way Christie was skeptical at first -- and knew exactly how long it had been since Jim had brought her flowers, then finally admitted he was worth it. Nice.

It's very touching, I agree. I believe Jim was sincere when he said that he wouldn't do it again, whether he can keep that promise.... Well, who knows what would have happened later on...
I also like Christie reacting the way she did. A bit skeptical at first but at the end accepting the flowers and the apology. Nice.
I always cringe when Christie says that Jim's "Worth it". While it's a very romantic thing to say, it always reminds me of the commercial with Andie McDowell in it. I think it's for shampoo or make up. Anyway, she tells about the wonders of the product and in the end says "Because I'm worth it"
That kind of ruins the moment for me because I'm always reminded of that commercial instead of focusing on Jim and Christie.

On to Up On the Roof....

- Chris

[inuvik]

chris said:

I also like Christie reacting the way she did. A bit skeptical at first but at the end accepting the flowers and the apology. Nice.
I always cringe when Christie says that Jim's "Worth it". While it's a very romantic thing to say, it always reminds me of the commercial with Andie McDowell in it. I think it's for shampoo or make up. Anyway, she tells about the wonders of the product and in the end says "Because I'm worth it"
That kind of ruins the moment for me because I'm always reminded of that commercial instead of focusing on Jim and Christie.

Karma for the laugh! I also hate that phrase. It's in lots of commercials. The whole notion in our society that we should always be treating ourselves really bugs me. It leads to excessive materialism and indulgences. A treat should be just that, a treat for a special occassion!

OK, moralistic rant over.