22 Episodes . . . ah, the possibilities!

[maggiethecat]

doobrah said:

mlm828 said:

Good point. The missing episodes also explain why "Fancy Footwork" never seemed quite right as the concluding episode. It was never intended to be a season finale, much less a series finale.
It also occurs to me that if the full run of 22 episodes had aired, close to half of the series (about 40%) would have taken place after Jim stopped carrying a gun. It would have been interesting to see what effect, if any, that might have had.

That's true, if they aired them consecutively. They may have aired 1-10 and 15-17. Or 1-6, 9-12, & 17-19. Or some other combination. You'd expect them to air the most compelling during May sweeps (I'm not going to comment on that one). Who knows?

[maggiethecat]

ashatan said:

mlm828 said:

Good point. The missing episodes also explain why "Fancy Footwork" never seemed quite right as the concluding episode. It was never intended to be a season finale, much less a series finale.
It also occurs to me that if the full run of 22 episodes had aired, close to half of the series (about 40%) would have taken place after Jim stopped carrying a gun. It would have been interesting to see what effect, if any, that might have had.
And -- while I'm here -- belated karma to longlashes and Bebe!

Oh very good point. I know I was in two minds about his not carrying a gun. I feel that would raise issues as well as him carrying.
I believe we will find out one day. Oh, there IS more Jim!!! Even if he is locked awya in a vault, waiting, there is more!!

[maggiethecat]

ashatan said:

bjobsessed said:

I don't know, but I do have a film cannister dated Jan 26, 2005.

?

[maggiethecat]

inuvik said:

ashatan said:

Karma, good idea!

Well, just so our hopes aren't raised--remember, BJO crafted the question if he knew about a release date, and he never answered. There was some question about whether it was even sent to him by the person who runs the site. I received many PM's about it.
I don't think this route is worth exploring further. If he won't answer a basic question, he wouldn't answer this far more interesting one.
And maybe he hasn't even gotten the question.

[maggiethecat]

inuvik said:

I'm not really sure I understand all this. It's my understanding that networks order more episodes of series to be filmed, based on ratings or whatever, when they need them. I read all the time that someone has ordered 6 more episodes of something, for example.
Why would so many episodes of BJ be filmed when ABC was paying to air them? Is this maybe the Fox part--Bocho was going to sell them to Fox? Or is this because it was Bocho's pet project, just wanted to film all the ideas he had, whether or not someone picked up all 22 episodes? Pretty expensive pet project.
I'm just trying to get a handle on all this. (Not doubting that he told you guys, we know he did)--but it still doesn't make sense to me.

[maggiethecat]

admin said:

doobrah said:

They may have aired 1-10 and 15-17. Or 1-6, 9-12, & 17-19. Or some other combination. You'd expect them to air the most compelling during May sweeps (I'm not going to comment on that one). Who knows?

That's what I was thinking. OR if there was more filmed, which is likely, it's not as likely that they all went through post production and it's quite possible that we got a taste of the beginning and the end of the run and that some of the in between eps were dropped. Remember how Jim's session with Galloway was filmed as part of The Pilot but then got spliced into FFU? It didn't quite fit there, especially after Fisk told Jim to go THAT NIGHT but he didn't go until the next night. There could have been all sorts of odd mixing and matching of scenes going on, particularly when it came to some of the Christie stuff, which could have fit in any number of places. Perhaps a full season run would have used the same footage but the final product may have told quite a different story. The gun part felt like good closure, so it may have been intended for a final episode, but much of the rest of that episode, filler and all, seems like a mediocre mid-season (and not sweeps) episode.

My theory is that if twenty-two episodes were shot, they picked and chose thirteen, not necessarily in order, and made them work as one run. I have no idea what this would mean when it comes to a DVD release, but it is fun to hope that there are more fully-produced episodes for us to look forward to some day.
Something that has occurred to me is that, if Doobrah's theory (or mine) about the show being given to us in episodes that could come after some that are skipped is true, it could be fun to start a thread about events that could have happened between the episodes we saw; finding little tidbits that seem to be missing, like Christie's Boston trip, and figuring out how they could have played out, had we been privy to everything that was written. Heh. Or maybe that's just me. Also, if Fancy Footwork wasn't meant to be the ending, this could make Mag's idea for an endings contest even more fun.

[maggiethecat]

mlm828 said:

Oh, this is very intriguing, and it's certainly possible that we saw selected episodes. But . . . I don't know. There seems to be pretty good continuity between the episodes, even those that aren't part of the same "story arc." For example, at the beginning of "Leap of Faith," Jim and Marty's truce is tested and holds. "Doggone" also refers back to the previous episode. At the beginning, Jim asks Christie if she is still mad at him, and later in the episode, she mentions the Boston trip. There aren't any obvious gaps or discontinuities other than the moving of the first Galloway session from the Pilot to the second episode. Of course, this could be skillful editing, and maybe we wouldn't notice the gaps, not knowing what was originally there. But I think the observant viewers on this board might have noticed something.

Another thought. I vaguely recall reading, when Grey's Anatomy was renewed, that additional episodes of it had been made and would be used as the beginning episodes of the second season. Maybe the same would have been done with Blind Justice -- unless we assume ABC would never have renewed Blind Justice, no matter how well it did (which, I grant you, could be inferred from RE's comments).

Just my two cents' worth of ramblings.

[maggiethecat]

mlm828 said:

Oh, this is very intriguing, and it's certainly possible that we saw selected episodes. But . . . I don't know. There seems to be pretty good continuity between the episodes, even those that aren't part of the same "story arc." For example, at the beginning of "Leap of Faith," Jim and Marty's truce is tested and holds. "Doggone" also refers back to the previous episode. At the beginning, Jim asks Christie if she is still mad at him, and later in the episode, she mentions the Boston trip. There aren't any obvious gaps or discontinuities other than the moving of the first Galloway session from the Pilot to the second episode. Of course, this could be skillful editing . . .

And I have always thought -- and said repeatedly until probably all of you could scream -- that the first six were so amazingly tight that anything after that was a bit of a let-down. The first six, through the locker room confrontation, could be run as a movie. After that? We wing off into Karen's love life and episodes that could easily be run anywhere in the series, until we get to the last three, which seem to be held together as a mini-story arc with the twin glues of the gun issue and . . . Jesus wept! . . . ballroom dance lessons.

There. I said it. (Which gets my vote for the most useful BJ quote ever.)

Has anyone else noticed that there were different writing and editing styles at work throughout the show?

So . . . all things considered . . . I do wonder if, with 22 shot, the creators (with advance notice of cancellation, which I have to think they knew about well before May 17th) fished around to find a good way to end the show, skipping over self-contained case-driven episodes that probably didn't advance in any way the emotional lives of the characters.

Or not.

[anna]

maggiethecat said:

So . . . all things considered . . . I do wonder if, with 22 shot, the creators (with advance notice of cancellation, which I have to think they knew about well before May 17th) fished around to find a good way to end the show, skipping over self-contained case-driven episodes that probably didn't advance in any way the emotional lives of the characters.

Or not.

As I recall, any time anyone raised this possibility, it was dismissed with the response that there was no way - given the costs involved - that any extra scenes would have been shot, thereby allowing a remix of episode 13 after the cancellation was known.

If it was agreed from the beginning that 22 episodes would be filmed, under whatever financial arrangements were made, that would explain why it was possible to remix 13 and maybe some of the other episodes as well, without incurring significant additional costs.

It's all very interesting.

I went back and reread some old articles. I found this:
Hollywood Reporter, May 18, 2004: Steven Bochco's "NYPD Blue" is said to be staying at 10 p.m., rotating with Bochco's new drama "Blind Justice."

As early as spring, 2004, the idea was that Blind Justice would rotate with NYPD Blue in 04/05, not that it would have a full season of 22 episodes. So why shoot 22 with no guarantee of a second season, even if you were covered financially? Was Bochco counting on his name with the networks to get a second season? Counting on the audience being won over? Just decided to go for because of his own passion for the show?

[mlm828]

Just thinking about the possibilities . . . it's not likely, but what if the missing episodes include another appearance of Ted?

[bjobsessed]

mlm828 said:

Just thinking about the possibilities . . . it's not likely, but what if the missing episodes include another appearance of Ted?

ahhh! The thought!

[housemouse]

anna said:

Was Bochco counting on his name with the networks to get a second season?

I have two words for you: Cop Rock. That's what Bochco's name brings to mind for a lot of people. ;D

[shmeep]

housemouse said:

anna said:

Was Bochco counting on his name with the networks to get a second season?

I have two words for you: Cop Rock. That's what Bochco's name brings to mind for a lot of people. ;D

Touche!

[mlm828]

More musings about "the possibilities" of the unaired episodes.

Let me preface this by saying I hope there are 9 actual unaired episodes, and that they are in fact episodes 14-22. I say this because I would very much like to see how the story continued after "Fancy Footwork." Even though the gun issue was resolved, a lot of other issues weren't. "That said," I'd be delighted to see any new material, whatever it is.

Here is one "possibility" that occurred to me. As has been stated here before, there are few, if any, wasted lines in Blind Justice. I'm thinking back to Galloway's comments to Jim in "Seoul Man," to the effect that when he realizes who this "new person" is, he may not want to be a cop at all. Jim seems to consider it for a moment, then says, "I'm a cop."

Was this really the last of this idea? I admit it seems out of character for Jim to give up being a cop, after having fought so hard for reinstatement. But is it possible that something could happen in the unaired later episodes to bring this issue to the forefront? Would it tie in somehow to the concept of Jim "embracing his blindness" which, as has been pointed out before, we really didn't see happen in the episodes which aired?

[maggiethecat]

housemouse said:

I have two words for you: Cop Rock. That's what Bochco's name brings to mind for a lot of people. ;D

Oh, you wicked Mouse, you. I actually remember Cop Rock! That said, I'll bet more people think Hill Street, L. A. Law, Murder One and NYPD Blue . . . I mean, he does keep gettin' stuff on the air!

I'll also bet no one connected with it ever thought Blind Justice was going to go into a second season. I think, as they say, "the fix was in," since there were apparently legal issues from the outset.