Up on the Roof

[hoosier]

I forgot to say how much I love the screen caps with the episode synopsis. Bravo ;D
Now,to business---One part of this epi I find very compelling is when Jim goes to visit Terry in the hospital. He comes in all charm and smiles,friendly,cracking jokes etc. and then when he turns to leave,the smile is gone and his face is rigid. It evidently took everything he had just to be in the same room with Terry and talk to him. He hadn't talk to Terry the year he was in rehab(from what you gather) and then he probably felt like he had been ambushed that first day on the job when Terry JUST happened to show up at his new precinct to want to apologize and all for what had gone before and ,though not trying to be friends,wanted to clear the air.Terry wanted to make himself feel better,that he had made the effort and all to make things right with Jim. In the hospital,maybe Jim was waiting and hoping for Terry to come clean but he didn't and a showdown was going to come.

I think that trust played a large part here--trust in your partner(Terry had failed in his,Jim was still learning to trust Karen and she could have refused to search further on the roof for him,saying there was nothing more to be found or even said there was nothing when she did find the hankie)trust in your abilities(Jim knew what he had heard and followed up on it )trusted Terry to do the right thing.

It would be hard to have a partner that is as charismatic.intelligent and complex as Jim Dunbar. Jim spoke to Terry's integrity and honesty and thnakfully he did do the right thing and didn't force Jim into going to FIsk and opening an even bigger can of worms.

[mlm828]

hoosier said:

One part of this epi I find very compelling is when Jim goes to visit Terry in the hospital. He comes in all charm and smiles,friendly,cracking jokes etc. and then when he turns to leave,the smile is gone and his face is rigid. It evidently took everything he had just to be in the same room with Terry and talk to him. He hadn't talk to Terry the year he was in rehab(from what you gather) and then he probably felt like he had been ambushed that first day on the job when Terry JUST happened to show up at his new precinct to want to apologize and all for what had gone before and ,though not trying to be friends,wanted to clear the air.Terry wanted to make himself feel better,that he had made the effort and all to make things right with Jim. In the hospital,maybe Jim was waiting and hoping for Terry to come clean but he didn't and a showdown was going to come.

I agree -- the scene at the hospital is very compelling, especially Jim's reaction at the end. Another interesting part of the scene is when Terry asks Jim if they can get together for a beer sometime. What is he thinking? Does he seriously believe that (supposedly) getting shot has somehow evened the score with Jim? Jim's reaction as he walks away tells us Jim doesn't think so -- not by a long shot.

Another amazing part of this scene is Jim's internal struggle, when he starts to tell Terry he heard Terry's shot first, then backs off, setting up his near-meltdown in Galloway's office. There is also Terry's reaction to Jim's hesitation, when he pre-emptively leaps in and asks, "You heard what?" Of course, Terry knows what he did on that roof, and he has to be very worried that Jim suspects the truth.

[maggiethecat]

I agree -- the scene at the hospital is very compelling, especially Jim's reaction at the end. Another interesting part of the scene is when Terry asks Jim if they can get together for a beer sometime. What is he thinking? Does he seriously believe that (supposedly) getting shot has somehow evened the score with Jim? Jim's reaction as he walks away tells us Jim doesn't think so -- not by a long shot.

Oh, yeah. So much more to say, but the interplay between Jim and Terry in the hospital is so telling, truly setting us up for what's to come, first at Terry's house and then at the river. (We're up to 3 pages and almost 300 viewings on this thread -- there is *so* much to chew on in this amazing episode.)

The look on Jim's face after he tells Terry they'll have a beer together sometime so clearly says," Yeah. Right. When hell freezes over." Love it.

And how sad and eager-as-a-puppy was Annie, Terry's wife? "Oh, Jimmy, you don't how much it means to him, you bein' here." (Or words to that effect.) Speculation here, but even though we can easily assume she didn't know the extent -- or the cause -- of the "bad blood" between them, she had to have known that Jim ducked Terry's calls for the better part of a year. And so her pleasure at seeing Jim again, both in Terry's hospital room and later at their house, comes across as almost desperate and more than a little pleading.

Will we ever be through with "Up on the Roof?"

Probably not. Let's hope not.

[housemouse]

maggiethecat said:

I agree -- the scene at the hospital is very compelling, especially Jim's reaction at the end. Another interesting part of the scene is when Terry asks Jim if they can get together for a beer sometime. What is he thinking? Does he seriously believe that (supposedly) getting shot has somehow evened the score with Jim? Jim's reaction as he walks away tells us Jim doesn't think so -- not by a long shot.

Oh, yeah. So much more to say, but the interplay between Jim and Terry in the hospital is so telling, truly setting us up for what's to come, first at Terry's house and then at the river. (We're up to 3 pages and almost 300 viewings on this thread -- there is *so* much to chew on in this amazing episode.)

The look on Jim's face after he tells Terry they'll have a beer together sometime so clearly says," Yeah. Right. When hell freezes over." Love it.

And how sad and eager-as-a-puppy was Annie, Terry's wife? "Oh, Jimmy, you don't how much it means to him, you bein' here." (Or words to that effect.) Speculation here, but even though we can easily assume she didn't know the extent -- or the cause -- of the "bad blood" between them, she had to have known that Jim ducked Terry's calls for the better part of a year. And so her pleasure at seeing Jim again, both in Terry's hospital room and later at their house, comes across as almost desperate and more than a little pleading.

Will we ever be through with "Up on the Roof?"

Probably not. Let's hope not.

You are so right, there is just so much to say about Up on the Roof. I am glad that we are able to go into it more deeply.

Jim and Terry have a great exchange at the hospital. I think Jim is feeling rather self-conscious walking down the hall to see Terry. As he gets to the room Semple makes the annoying comment about Jim talking Hank for a walk, that makes things a little harder on Jim. He walks into the room and has to announce his presence and be guided to Terry. Annie grabs his arm and is somewhat patronizing (although some might not see it that way, I do). By this time, Jim is feeling small, and is getting really pissed off about being blind and feeling helpless and humiliated. Of course, he blames Terry for his being in this situation. So, by the time he is ready to talk to Terry, I think he can barely contain his frustration. He does a good job of holding back, and not admitting to Terry what he really thinks. But, if Terry and Jim were as close as the episode makes them out to be, Terry knows Jim knows more than he is saying, and Terry is doing all he can to stay cool and not give anything up. It is to his benefit that Jim can't see his face, as long as he controls the emotion in his voice, he might be able to pull it off.

I still maintain that the two best scenes are Jim with Galloway and Jim's confronting Terry at the apartment. With Galloway, Jim is able to let his bubbling emotions finally come to the surface. He knows his integrity will never let him pin the shooting on the wrong guy, but it takes Galloway to remind him of that.

When Jim confronts Terry at his apartment, it is very intense. The scene begins with Annie and Terry patronizing him (again). Annie runs him into the chair, then Terry says "I got him," like he is some kind of an animal that needs to be contained. From the first time I saw that scene I was struck by how offensive I would find that line, if someone had said it to me. They are talking about Jim as if he is not there. In my opinion, Jim does a great job of keeping his anger in check under very difficult circumstances. I also think that things may have gone differently had Terry just admitted what he did. I think Jim would have cut him a little slack and the two of them could have worked out some kind of an explanation that would have allowed Terry to keep his job. But because Terry didn't come clean, Jim saw it as Terry letting him down yet again, and the gloves were off.

Then the ending, what can be said about the ending? Jim has by no means come to "embrace his blindness" but for the first time he realizes, there are worse things that could have happened. Still, in my opinion, the best ending of any episode of the series.

[housemouse]

anna said:

I said this on the other board, but I will add it here. One of my favorite moments in the hospital scene is when Annie tells Jim that there is a chair right behind him, and Jim reaches back to feel for the seat. Up until that moment, Terry has been all smiles, but then the smile fades and is replaced by the guilt and pain that he has been feeling for the past year.

This also brings up one my favorite things about the show as a whole. Once I had watched the episodes enough times to tear my eyes away from Eldard, I began to notice how fully engaged all of the actors are in every scene. No one is ever just waiting for his or her next line. Nothing is thrown away.

I never noticed that! Oh well, just one more reason to watch the episode again!

[maggiethecat]

[/quote] Annie grabs his arm and is somewhat patronizing (although some might not see it that way, I do). By this time, Jim is feeling small, and is getting really pissed off about being blind and feeling helpless and humiliated.[/quote]

I just love the way everyone has such a different take on the various aspects of this scene. And you got me thinking, Mouse. I had never seen Annie's behavior toward Jim as patronizing -- I just saw her as a sweet and somewhat dim woman who hadn't the faintest idea how to act around a blind person. Maybe we can also assume that, since Jim and Terry were hardly pals (!) in the year before Dunbar returned to work, Annie hadn't encountered him since he'd been blinded, and was probably a little taken aback. So she went for the overly helpful, which certainly can be read as patronizing -- thinking she had to "grab" him and lead him around (as she does at their house) instead of offering him her arm. Not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, Annie.

Actually, I hadn't even thought that Glen Semple's remarks in the hallway bothered Jim that much for two reasons: by this time he knows Glen's an idiot, and so can easily sluff off what he says. Secondly, and more importantly, I think Jim's concentrating on what he's going to say to Terry once they're face to face. I don't think Jim walked into the room in any kind of "weakened" state, although the moment when he has to grope for the chair is chilling. (Maybe more disturbing for those watching, since by now Jim's accustomed to feeling around for stuff.) I think Jim walked into that hospital room as strong and as determined as he'd ever been. Dunbar is one helluva interrogator -- and he's heading into what may be the most important interrogation of his life. By the end of the scene he *knows* Terry's lying. And he plays the "jolly old buddy" game to get what he needs to confirm his suspicions.



And he does it so well! Laughing, joking, like they were old friends with an uncomplicated past. We have clues as to what he's *really* thinking throughout the scene, but only clues, as he's so convincing. It's only when he's leaving, after promising Terry they'd get a beer sometime (in the next millennium) that his face turns to stone . . . and you see both the determination and the disgust. And then he goes to Galloway and just lays it all out for him. After talking to Terry, Jim knows -- absolutely! -- what went down. He got what he wanted . . . and I don't believe he would have let any amount of stupid remarks or patronizing behavior stop him.

And isn't the scene at Terry's house just amazing? Isn't EVERY scene in "Up on the Roof" amazing? Not one wasted frame of film.

[housemouse]

maggiethecat said:

And he does it so well! Laughing, joking, like they were old friends with an uncomplicated past. We have clues as to what he's *really* thinking throughout the scene, but only clues, as he's so convincing. It's only when he's leaving, after promising Terry they'd get a beer sometime (in the next millennium) that his face turns to stone . . . and you see both the determination and the disgust. And then he goes to Galloway and just lays it all out for him. After talking to Terry, Jim knows -- absolutely! -- what went down. He got what he wanted . . . and I don't believe he would have let any amount of stupid remarks or patronizing behavior stop him.

And isn't the scene at Terry's house just amazing? Isn't EVERY scene in "Up on the Roof" amazing? Not one wasted frame of film.

In those two scenes (the hospital and Terry's house, Jim may be the one who is physically blind, but Terry's vision is a lot more clouded than Jim's. Jim's true feelings are all over his face. Yes, he is a good interrogator, yes he is confident while talking to Terry, but he is still emotional about this relationship. He is still pissed at Terry, and it is right there, just barely under the surface. If Terry had any "vision" at all, and if they were truly as close as he thinks the were, Terry would have seen right through Jim and come clean.

[maggiethecat]

housemouse said:

maggiethecat said:

And he does it so well! Laughing, joking, like they were old friends with an uncomplicated past. We have clues as to what he's *really* thinking throughout the scene, but only clues, as he's so convincing. It's only when he's leaving, after promising Terry they'd get a beer sometime (in the next millennium) that his face turns to stone . . . and you see both the determination and the disgust. And then he goes to Galloway and just lays it all out for him. After talking to Terry, Jim knows -- absolutely! -- what went down. He got what he wanted . . . and I don't believe he would have let any amount of stupid remarks or patronizing behavior stop him.

And isn't the scene at Terry's house just amazing? Isn't EVERY scene in "Up on the Roof" amazing? Not one wasted frame of film.

In those two scenes (the hospital and Terry's house, Jim may be the one who is physically blind, but Terry's vision is a lot more clouded than Jim's. Jim's true feelings are all over his face. Yes, he is a good interrogator, yes he is confident while talking to Terry, but he is still emotional about this relationship. He is still pissed at Terry, and it is right there, just barely under the surface. If Terry had any "vision" at all, and if they were truly as close as he thinks the were, Terry would have seen right through Jim and come clean.

Right on. Mouse! Jim is "absolutely" the one with the clearer vision, in both those amazing scenes. And, with everything he's gone through and as emotionally complex as he is, Jim is much the healthier man . . . which leads us to that amazing statement at the end of the episode. And I agree with you 1,000% that then ending of this episode is just plain the BEST!

[housemouse]

maggiethecat said:

Right on. Mouse! Jim is "absolutely" the one with the clearer vision, in both those amazing scenes. And, with everything he's gone through and as emotionally complex as he is, Jim is much the healthier man . . . which leads us to that amazing statement at the end of the episode. And I agree with you 1,000% that then ending of this episode is just plain the BEST!

Oh ya! The very best episode, with the very best ending. Seoul Man my foot! Sorry, I just couldn't help myself!

[maggiethecat]

The very best episode, with the very best ending. Seoul Man my foot! Sorry, I just couldn't help myself!

Yeah, Mouse, I think we were all brainwashed in another galaxy far, far away . . . "Seoul Man' is great, but "Up on the Roof" just plain does it for us. (Others have their faves, but hey! its all about celebrating different viewpoints.) And, while "Seoul Man" is where Jim and Marty start to work things out, I have to think both of them would have come to that eventually -- both have, no doubt, had to deal with co-workers with whom they had no respect or rapport . . .

. . . but "Up on the Roof" is, to me, even more important because it's the resolution of Jim's complex and tortured relationship with Terry, which is central to his journey. Marty? I think Dunbar could have kept doing his work even with Marty nipping at his heels. (I *still" think Fisk should have sent the guy to sensitivity training!) Naah, Jim would have kept on working cases, working with Karen, and just avoiding Marty's sniping and childishness. Coming to terms with Terry was major, and, to me, just not in the same category as dealing with what Galloway so deliciously called "the insecure ramblings of Detective Russo."

See you at 10 Eastern tonight, I hope!

[housemouse]

maggiethecat said:

[quote The very best episode, with the very best ending. Seoul Man my foot! Sorry, I just couldn't help myself!

Yeah, Mouse, I think we were all brainwashed in another galaxy far, far away . . . "Seoul Man' is great, but "Up on the Roof" just plain does it for us. (Others have their faves, but hey! its all about celebrating different viewpoints.) And, while "Seoul Man" is where Jim and Marty start to work things out, I have to think both of them would have come to that eventually -- both have, no doubt, had to deal with co-workers with whom they had no respect or rapport . . .

. . . but "Up on the Roof" is, to me, even more important because it's the resolution of Jim's complex and tortured relationship with Terry, which is central to his journey. Marty? I think Dunbar could have kept doing his work even with Marty nipping at his heels. (I *still" think Fisk should have sent the guy to sensitivity training!) Naah, Jim would have kept on working cases, working with Karen, and just avoiding Marty's sniping and childishness. Coming to terms with Terry was major, and, to me, just not in the same category as dealing with what Galloway so deliciously called "the insecure ramblings of Detective Russo."

See you at 10 Eastern tonight, I hope! [/quote]

Amen Sistah!

[rducasey]

I noticed as Jim is walking down the hospital hallway to see Terry, Glen Semple is talking with a uniform officer. He says "Oh he just wants to be a hero.". I assume he is referring to Terry but isn't that a strange thing for him to say? Is it possible he knows or suspects what took place on the roof? And with that kind of talk while Terry is in the hospital, how long will it be before he is bad-mouthing his partner after the "truth" comes out? As Jim says to Christy at the end of the episode, "He'll never be able to keep the llid on what really happened, cops will find out."

[maggiethecat]

rducasey said:

I noticed as Jim is walking down the hospital hallway to see Terry, Glen Semple is talking with a uniform officer. He says "Oh he just wants to be a hero.". I assume he is referring to Terry but isn't that a strange thing for him to say? Is it possible he knows or suspects what took place on the roof? And with that kind of talk while Terry is in the hospital, how long will it be before he is bad-mouthing his partner after the "truth" comes out? As Jim says to Christy at the end of the episode, "He'll never be able to keep the llid on what really happened, cops will find out."

You know, I wondered about that, too. I thought Glen was talking about Dunbar being back on the Job! I can't see how chasing a perp and onto the roof, and getting shot in the process, would qualify as "wanting to be a hero." Seemed like the natural course of action given the circumstances. So I always thought Glen was gassing about Dunbar, whom he'd just met that day and I think we can assume was a hot topic of conversation in the department.

I just love the way everyone has a different take on things, right down to the interpretation of individual lines of dialogue.

And I really don't think Glen has any inkling of what *really* went on that day -- he just doesn't impress me as the brightest guy.

[rducasey]

However if you watch Semple he appears to point to Terry's room when he makes the comment. "Oh he justs wants to be a hero."

[maggiethecat]

rducasey said:

However if you watch Semple he appears to point to Terry's room when he makes the comment. "Oh he justs wants to be a hero."

A detail I obviously never noticed -- thanks! Then it's just another example of Glen being "that fat hump of a partner," since Terry really didn't set out to do anything heroic. He was chasing a perp, something he's done a hundred times before.

That Glen. What a guy.