Up on the Roof

[kytdunne]

mlm828 said:

I was thinking of Jim's rejection of Terry's last-ditch plea to Jim to let him change his story (so Titus wouldn't be prosecuted) and get counseling, allowing him to keep his job.

'Last-ditch plea' is a good description since Terry was really stretching. That kind of "I'm not sure now" from a cop would cause a lot more suspicion and scrutiny than Terry's shaky story could withstand.

Kyt

[hoosier]

I don't think this has been mentioned before--would Terry have staged the shooting if Jim hadn't been present? I don't think so. Is Jim responsible. No. There was a psychological flaw or maybe it was a culmination of events over the past year since the bank or a combinatin of both that drove Terry to shot himself and pin it on Titus Oliver but I think his actins may have hinged on Jim being on the scene.

Jim had kept his distance from Terry since the bank and when Terry showed up at the precinct his first day back at work,Jim was polite but his attitude and body language made it clear Terry's overtures were not welcome. Then they were thrown together on this case. Jim didn't come right and say it but he would only tolerate a professional relationship, nothing more.

Terry picked up Titus' gun as he chased him up the stairs and when he got to the roof and saw him escaping by jumping onto the next roof, something snapped. He hd failed to apprehend the perp and Jim was there to *see* his failure--again. He was sure he had judged his performance at the bank without letting him explain so he would judge him again. Would Jim have even said anything? Probably just put it up to bad luck--Titus having a head start etc.

Terry had Titus' gun. He was on the roof alone. Jim,who knew what he had done/not done at the bank was there. Subconsciously,he may have thought Jim would consider him a total failure as a cop for letting Titus escape. The means were there for him to create the scenario where he would be a hero ,a good cop who was wounded in the line of duty while trying to stop a fleeing felon.

Jim and Terry both were carrying a lot of baggage from the bank. Jim's rage at Terry finally surfaced at his session with Galloway. He had always been rather vague and evasive when questioned about Terry and his actions at the bank. Did Terry see a pscychatrist after the bank? In Marlon's Brando,Tom told Karen that the pschy services were available when she needed them so it must be common procedure. When Jim confronted Terry ,Terry said he would see a therapist if Jim didn't rat him out--handing the responsibility over to Jim,again,rather than face up to it.

In another post,I mentioned how there may have been rumors about Terry's role at the bank and that was why he partnered with Semple--not because no one would work with Semple but because no one would work with him. Now I wonder if he partnered with Semple because he was the exact opposite of Jim Dunbar! Semple is loud,bombastic, hardly PC(ie: black on black comment to Tom) and hardly on the up and up(ie:Fisk questioning him on the legitimacy of the apartment entry). Terry seems embarrassed by some of Semple's actions and remarks but he can pull his ass out of the fire when neccesary and get some of the credit for solving cases. With Jim,he had to be on his toes,with Semple,who seems near retirement,he can have the chance to shine as the more efficient,moderate,can-do partner.

So,would Terry have staged the shooting if Jim hadn't been there? He might have--in some perverse way trying to make it up to Jim for the bank,to prove he could step up in a serious situation, to prove he had what it took to be a good cop. However,I think it all came down to the fact that Jim was on the scene and in his mind Terry couldn't face up to another failure that Jim would be a witness to so he concocted a scheme that fell apart precisely because Jim was there.

[maggiethecat]

Hey, hoosier!

Lots of great points to chew over -- and I will respond more fully when I've digested -- but off the top of my head, I will respond to one question of yours about partners:

The partner match-up is made by the superior officer, i.e. your lieutanant: partners don't usually choose each other. Case in point, Fisk assigning Bettancourt to work with Dunbar. So, although Terry does make that comment in the hospital scene about how "no one else would partner up" with Semple, it could be another case of Terry shading the truth. (Gosh, would * he* do that?!) Probably they were assigned to work with each other, essentially stuck with each other.

More later!

[sport57]

In the scene in Terry's house, did anyone catch him lifting his eyes to check to make sure Annie wasn't around, or in hearing range, when he asked Jim if he thought he'd shot himself? That's right before Terry came out with the "you can't deal with the fact that I did something good" line (sorry, don't remember exact wording right now). Was that a guilty tell or what?

[maggiethecat]

sport57 said:

In the scene in Terry's house, did anyone catch him lifting his eyes to check to make sure Annie wasn't around, or in hearing range, when he asked Jim if he thought he'd shot himself? That's right before Terry came out with the "you can't deal with the fact that I did something good" line (sorry, don't remember exact wording right now). Was that a guilty tell or what?

Absolutely! And, if I remember correctly, he even drops his voice a bit. Yeah, it's safe to say he doesn't want Annie to hear any of his conversation with Jim. Must have been fun explaining to her why he was off the job with a reduced pension . . . .

[mlm828]

admin said:

hoosier said:

He is nearly incoherent with the rage over the bank. Galloway absolutely misses a vital clue into Jim's psyche when he corrects him.

Galloway, miss a clue? For shame! He knew exactly what he was doing when he corrected Jim, causing Jim to realize the slip he had just made and what it could mean. The very deliberate way in which he said, "You mean on the roof?" put the whole situation into perspective for Jim. I thought it was one of Galloway's more subtle and wise moments.

I must be having a "senior blond moment" here, because I'm not following you, and that exchange, frankly, has always baffled me. Are you saying Galloway knew or suspected what had happened at the bank, and he directed Jim away from that topic? If so, why would he not want Jim to talk to him about it, confidentially? What do you think Jim's slip could mean? When you say that Galloway put the situation into perspective, are you saying Galloway realized it wasn't about the bank, it was about the roof? But isn't Jim's distress equally about what happened at the bank? What am I missing here? Sorry for all these questions, but I really am perplexed here. Please elaborate.

P.S. This was originally in the discussion of the Pilot, but since it refers to "Up on the Roof," I put my reply here.

[shmeep]

mlm828 said:

I must be having a "senior blond moment" here, because I'm not following you, and that exchange, frankly, has always baffled me. Are you saying Galloway knew or suspected what had happened at the bank, and he directed Jim away from that topic? If so, why would he not want Jim to talk to him about it, confidentially? What do you think Jim's slip could mean? When you say that Galloway put the situation into perspective, are you saying Galloway realized it wasn't about the bank, it was about the roof? But isn't Jim's distress equally about what happened at the bank? What am I missing here? Sorry for all these questions, but I really am perplexed here. Please elaborate.

P.S. This was originally in the discussion of the Pilot, but since it refers to "Up on the Roof," I put my reply here.

The way I see it, it doesn't matter if Galloway knew what really happened at the bank or not. I'm sure he knew Jim's shooting took place at a bank, but he didn't have to know Terry's role in that occurrence. Now, being the astute individual we all know him to be, Jim's agitation about Terry undoubtedly clued him in to the fact that something odd was going on between these two ex-partners and then Jim pretty much came out and said that Terry was to blame for what happened at the bank, which he may not have ever admitted to anyone (other than Christie, perhaps) before, so just that slip was important. I think it was also important that Jim be made aware of his slip so he could either redirect his anger to the situation at hand or veer off on that other path (something I doubt Jim would consciously do).

So, we can agree with Galloway's decision to bring Jim back to the present or we can see it as a missed opportunity because Jim might have been ready to open up about what happened the day he was blinded (but, again, I doubt if Jim would have gone very far down that road and Galloway probably knew that very well), but I don't see it as a missed cue on Galloway's part. I think he knew what he was doing and had a reason for it.

Keep in mind that this visit to Galloway is the first time we get to see Jim getting really agitated about something that happened on the job and it's the first time the words are just spilling out of him. I believe Galloway is wisely allowing Jim to direct the flow of the conversation and, since he wants to talk about Terry and the roof, that's where they're going. I also believe that Jim opening up about Terry on the roof is almost the equivalent of Jim talking about the shooting at the bank and, since he wouldn't talk freely about one, he might about the other so Galloway was showing Jim that parallel to see what Jim would do with it. I find the whole thing fascinating.

Of course, that's all just the story that goes on in my head when I watch it.

Thanks for the question and for posting it in the proper category. Good job! That makes me happy.

[mlm828]

Thanks so much for taking the time to explain your analysis of this point.

I agree that Galloway must have had some information about the circumstances of Jim's injury, and he is too sharp to miss Jim's reference to Terry's having blown it "at the bank." The question that still remains in my mind is why he redirected Jim to the current situation. As you point out, Jim's statement that Terry blew it at the bank tells Galloway that Jim blames Terry for what happened at the bank, but it also tells him that that past event is closely connected with what happened on the roof and Jim's belief that Terry shot himself. If Galloway knows or surmises all of these things, I still wonder why he wouldn't pursue it. On other occasions, he doesn't show any reluctance to press Jim to talk about difficult issues. And exploring what happened at the bank could be useful in helping Jim to deal with the current situation.

Perhaps, as you suggest, Galloway simply felt this was not the time to prod Jim to discuss what happened at the bank, and he was giving Jim the option of where to go next.

[maggiethecat]

mlm828 said:

Perhaps, as you suggest, Galloway simply felt this was not the time to prod Jim to discuss what happened at the bank, and he was giving Jim the option of where to go next.

Or, simply, that there were time constraints on the length of the scene, and for Galloway and Jim to have discussed Terry's role in the shootout at the bank would have been an entire other scene . . . which we all would have loved to have seen. Sigh.

That said, if you watch Galloway's face when he jumps in on Jim's line, he does it quickly and intuitively, a lightening-fast correction of a classic Freudian slip . . . and we're back where we started. Ouch!

[maggiethecat]

Today at 6:47pm, hoosier wrote:On the one hand ,Jim was so mad about the situation Terry dumped in his lap and he jumbled up the roof and the bank in his mind and blurted out the wrong word. When Galloway calls him on it it jolts Jim back to the present and reminds him that he has to do the right thing by Titus. Wonder if Galloway and Jim ever discuss the bank and Terry? Oh, to have been a fly on the wall that day!

Hey, hoosier, we've been chewing over this in the (amazingly lengthy) "Up on the Rood" thread. Come join us! The question on the table is, did Galloway blow it when he corrected Jim -- and miss a Golden Opportunity -- or was he trying to keep him on point?

See you over in UOTR -- there is much to discuss!

And here we are again.

So . . . why did Jim say "bank" when he meant "roof?" Is it because, when you get down to it, it's always at the forfront of his mind? When he gets upset and agitated about the subject of Terry, which he does in Galloway's office, is it inevitable that it's going to bring up the bank? Whether Jim's trying to figure out why Terry shot himself on the roof -- or even discuss the man in any terms -- it will always roll back around to the bank. It's what he lives with, it haunts his dreams, it is what changed the way he lives.

Then again (oh, great, now I'm arguing with myself), Jim manages to stay completely on point with Karen when discussing Terry, and what happened on the roof. With Galloway, he loses it. With Karen, it's all about the case.

[mlm828]

maggiethecat said:

Or, simply, that there were time constraints on the length of the scene, and for Galloway and Jim to have discussed Terry's role in the shootout at the bank would have been an entire other scene . . . which we all would have loved to have seen. Sigh.

That said, if you watch Galloway's face when he jumps in on Jim's line, he does it quickly and intuitively, a lightening-fast correction of a classic Freudian slip . . . and we're back where we started. Ouch!

We can also theorize there were time constraints on the length of the session, leaving not enough time to get into it. But, yes, we would have loved to see that session.

It is also noteworthy that when Galloway says, "You mean the roof?" Jim immediately responds, "Yes, the roof." This indicates to me that Jim wanted the conversation to be re-directed to the roof, and he did not want to talk about what happened at the bank.

[mlm828]

maggiethecat said:

So . . . why did Jim say "bank" when he meant "roof?" Is it because, when you get down to it, it's always at the forefront of his mind? When he gets upset and agitated about the subject of Terry, which he does in Galloway's office, is it inevitable that it's going to bring up the bank? Whether Jim's trying to figure out why Terry shot himself on the roof -- or even discuss the man in any terms -- it will always roll back around to the bank. It's what he lives with, it haunts his dreams, it is what changed the way he lives.

I think Jim's saying "the bank" instead of "the roof" is, as someone has described it, a Freudian slip. I'm not sure that what happened at the bank is always in the forefront of Jim's mind, as you suggest, but it definitely is on that day. He is thrown together with Terry at work, he believes Terry shot himself on the roof, and he probably suspects Terry's shooting himself -- on a day they are working together -- has something to do with what happened at the bank.

It's very revealing how quickly Jim picks up on the "out" Galloway gives him and goes back to talking about the roof instead of the bank, which his slip shows is very much on his mind, too.

[hoosier]

Undoubtedly Galloway was given Jim's file and knew about the bank--after all thats why Jim was seeing him in the first place. Since I feel Terry's actions at the bank aren't common knowledge, all Galloway really knows is that Terry was Jim's partner and was at the bank.

I told Shmeep,that I could see her point about Galloway redirecting Jim back to the roof. In his session with Jim in Rub a Tub,Jim had mentioned in his "what is there to be afraid of" speech of being afraid of letting your anger boil over. It definitely was at a critical point here, he was nearly incoherent and almost spitting out the words--he wanted out of the mess, he wanted to be done with Terry, he didn't care what happened to Titus. When Galloway corrected him as to his word choice, he was shocked--not only at the slip but at letting his emotions get the better of him. Of course, Jim being Jim he couldnt let Titus take the fall to cover for a fellow cop and did the right thing.

That said,I still feel too that Galloway did miss the opportunity to delve deeper into Jim's psyche. Of course, that session was focusing on the roof and Terry and Jim's emotions were so raw but hopefully Galloway wrote it down in his little book as something he absolutely had to bring up later! As Mim said, Galloway is not afraid to really nail Jim on topics he doesn't like discussing--namely his marriage-- and wasn't coy in telling him he did not want to talk about how well he was doing at work(the famous chocolate chip cookie time!!!) He is familiar by now with the brick wall Jim can throw up from time to time and that wall would most definitely have come up that day because of the Terry and the roof business. To have been a fly on the wall in that session ;D

[housemouse]

hoosier said:

That said,I still feel too that Galloway did miss the opportunity to delve deeper into Jim's psyche. Of course, that session was focusing on the roof and Terry and Jim's emotions were so raw but hopefully Galloway wrote it down in his little book as something he absolutely had to bring up later! As Mim said, Galloway is not afraid to really nail Jim on topics he doesn't like discussing--namely his marriage-- and wasn't coy in telling him he did not want to talk about how well he was doing at work(the famous chocolate chip cookie time!!!) He is familiar by now with the brick wall Jim can throw up from time to time and that wall would most definitely have come up that day because of the Terry and the roof business. To have been a fly on the wall in that session ;D

I am inclined to think Galloway purposely stopped delving further. Jim was a walking nerve ending during that session. Galloway was just on the brink of gaining Jim's total trust, and he didn't want to blow that. I am sure he wrote it in his notes with plans to revisit the issue.

[maggiethecat]

housemouse said:

hoosier said:

That said,I still feel too that Galloway did miss the opportunity to delve deeper into Jim's psyche. Of course, that session was focusing on the roof and Terry and Jim's emotions were so raw but hopefully Galloway wrote it down in his little book as something he absolutely had to bring up later! As Mim said, Galloway is not afraid to really nail Jim on topics he doesn't like discussing--namely his marriage-- and wasn't coy in telling him he did not want to talk about how well he was doing at work(the famous chocolate chip cookie time!!!) He is familiar by now with the brick wall Jim can throw up from time to time and that wall would most definitely have come up that day because of the Terry and the roof business. To have been a fly on the wall in that session ;D

I am inclined to think Galloway purposely stopped delving further. Jim was a walking nerve ending during that session. Galloway was just on the brink of gaining Jim's total trust, and he didn't want to blow that. I am sure he wrote it in his notes with plans to revisit the issue.

The more I think about it, the more I keep returning to my original contention, which I first stated in my recap of this amazing episode: Galloway was correcting a classic Freudian slip. And after everyone's persuasive and comprehensive arguments, I still think/feel this way.

It's more satisfying dramatically to think that Dr. G. corrected Jim's reference to the bank -- this puts the viewer one up, and that's always pleasing. It's also valid for Jim to have said "bank" without it inferring that he was slipping some sort pf psychological cog, for the simple reason that Terry's shenanigans on the roof were bringing up the past -- actually, every time Jim had to be in the same room with this guy, it all came up. Jim always has to exert control over himself (or remove himself emotionally, which also happens) whenever he has to deal with Terry. This scene in Galloway's ofice is the one time he lets his anger at Terry "boil up," and so it's not a stretch that he would be so upset as to misspeak. Which is why I keep coming back to the notion of the Freudian slip.

As an aside, I love the faintly surprised expression on Galloway's face during this scene. Jim has always been so rigidly under control in his sessions, saying to Galloway only what he chooses to say -- The Great Wall of Dunbar -- that it's great to see Galloway really lean in and lose a little of his detachment as well.

Also, after Galloway corrects Jim by saying, "You mean the roof," Jim hops in just as quickly with "The roof, right." Even though we, the audience, would like to see this line pursued, it's clear to me that Jim knows he misspoke. He knows the roof is the topic under discussion and is ready to get back to it. The bank reference is just one of those delicious moments where we get the chance to think "What if . . . ?"