Marlon's Brando

[mlm828]

One thing in "Marlon's Brando" has always bothered me. When Jim and Karen return to the squad after Condell's suicide, everyone is concerned about Karen's emotional well-being. Tom tells her Psych Services is ready to come out, and Fisk assures her he's available if she needs him. But no one, including Karen, even asks if Jim is okay. Why? Do they think the incident didn't affect him, because he couldn't see it? (Jim himself seems to subscribe to this theory, telling Galloway Karen will have the image of Condell in her mind for the rest of her life, but he won't. Galloway wisely rejects this theory, telling Jim he experienced the same thing as Karen, but in a different way). Or is it a sexist stereotype -- they expect the incident to upset the woman, but not the man? Or do they just not care whether Jim is okay?

[Katryna]

mlm828 said:

One thing in "Marlon's Brando" has always bothered me. When Jim and Karen return to the squad after Condell's suicide, everyone is concerned about Karen's emotional well-being. Tom tells her Psych Services is ready to come out, and Fisk assures her he's available if she needs him. But no one, including Karen, even asks if Jim is okay. Why? Do they think the incident didn't affect him, because he couldn't see it? (Jim himself seems to subscribe to this theory, telling Galloway Karen will have the image of Condell in her mind for the rest of her life, but he won't. Galloway wisely rejects this theory, telling Jim he experienced the same thing as Karen, but in a different way). Or is it a sexist stereotype -- they expect the incident to upset the woman, but not the man? Or do they just not care whether Jim is okay?

This is a great point. I tend to lean towards the sexist theory. Also maybe because Karen hasn't been on the job as long as Jim. They may think he is hardened to this type of thing. I am sure the fact that he actually didn't "see" the incident weighed in, too. But how about the way he must have felt sitting on that couch, knowing that Condell had a gun out and not being able to see what was going on?

[bjobsessed]

Maybe they thought that since Jim had been in the army, it wouldn't bother him as much either which is crazy. First, I don't think you'd ever get used to that, and second, he could see so at least he knew what was going on. Also, as he pointed out to Jake Crider, he still had his imagination and sometimes that's worse than the real thing.

[mlm828]

kathy said:

I tend to lean towards the sexist theory. Also maybe because Karen hasn't been on the job as long as Jim. They may think he is hardened to this type of thing. I am sure the fact that he actually didn't "see" the incident weighed in, too. But how about the way he must have felt sitting on that couch, knowing that Condell had a gun out and not being able to see what was going on?

Good points, especially the last one. Jim was absolutely frantic after Condell pulled out the gun.



Based on Jim's statements to Galloway about the incident, I think his feeling that he couldn't do anything to protect Karen shook him up even more than Condell's shooting himself.

[mlm828]

bjobsessed said:

Maybe they thought that since Jim had been in the army, it wouldn't bother him as much either which is crazy. First, I don't think you'd ever get used to that, and second, he could see so at least he knew what was going on.

Could be, but I'm not sure the other detectives knew at this time that Jim had served in the Army during the Gulf War. This is before Greg Hermanson shows up in "Past Imperfect." But you're right -- does anyone really get used to that kind of thing? And being unable to see what was going on had to make it worse.

bjobsessed said:

Also, as he pointed out to Jake Crider, he still had his imagination and sometimes that's worse than the real thing.

I don't think that occurred to anyone.

[hoosier]

I also go along with the sexist theory. Guys are suppose to suck it up and all. Plus the fact that he is blind and didn't actually "see" it happen Only Karen asked him if he had ever seen anything like that before and he said not close up. Maybe they figured he was already seeing a shrink and if he felt the need he could discuss it with him!

[hoosier]

Watched MB the other day and Jim askes Karen if she is alright to which she responds NO. Then Fisk said "if you need me I'm in my office" Hope he was including Jim since he did not seem to be saying that specifically to Karen.

[carl1951]

This actually falls within misheard. I was listening to Art Bell. He was having the Predictions for 2006.
Someone called in and said that someone would set off a "Dirty Bomb."

A couple of callers later, someone called in and said they thought they heard: Dirty Blonde.
Hey, Blonde Dude.

Later, Carl

[maggiethecat]

anna said:

The only time I got kicked out was the scene in which Jim is making absolutely sure that Nancy knows he is blind in Marlon's Brando. The writers and director and maybe RE were so over the top. Ok, we get it already! The white cane would have done it. You didn't have to intentionally fall over a chair, too.

housemouse said:

mlm828 said:

There are definitely some cringe-y moments in that scene. But I didn't get "kicked out of the story" by them, in the sense of having my attention diverted to wondering why the writers or RE did the scene that way. Given that the plan was to "play up the blindness," my reaction was that Jim (the character, not RE the actor) was overdoing it, and that didn't kick me out of the story.

I agree with this assessment. I think it was showing Dunbar wanting to use his blindness, but not being exactly sure how. I think Eldard played it the exact right way and that scene never kicked me out of the story.

And here's my two cents . . .

Who knows if Jim could have gotten what he wanted out of Nancy Dressler if he hadn't gone as far as he did? It was an interesting idea, and I think it works in context. Stumbling into the chair after locating it with the cane, “Am I facing you?” when he knows he is, telling Nancy he’s newly blind because she’s newly disfigured -- if it's over the top it's deliberate. It’s the only time Dunbar allows himself to appear vulnerable on purpose, and, because he’s so tense throughout the episode (Marty’s sniping hits a new level in MB), to act unskilled and fumbling has an odd effect on him. He can’t track the interview, he keeps winging off into those bleached images of wounded Christie. After all his efforts to minimize the blindness on the job, to suddenly have capitalize on it? Now that’s a neat little psychological landmine right there. For me, the scene underscores Dunbar’s willingness to do whatever he must to close a case, no matter how unpleasant.

I always thought it was a rather tasty little scene . . . and a nifty contrast with using his cane to whack a perp.

[mlm828]

mlm828 said:

A little off topic, but did you notice the character Nancy Dressler's reaction to Jim's "playing up the blindness"? You could almost see her thinking, "Who is this guy?"

I moved this from the other discussion.

[maggiethecat]

Thanks, mlm! I always wondered a little about that -- I could never figure out if she was taken aback by Dunbar or just stunned at her situation in general. What do you think?

[Dreamfire]

I just watched that bit again and I relate it to the earlier scene where Nancy asks Karen " So it takes a woman cop now to even look at me?". If I were her I'd be thinking " I look so bad they have to send a BLIND one?

[bjobsessed]

ashatan said:

I just watched that bit again and I relate it to the earlier scene where Nancy asks Karen " So it takes a woman cop now to even look at me?". If I were her I'd be thinking " I look so bad they have to send a BLIND one?

Never thought of that! She must have felt more comfortable though. She did talk to him about what happened.

[Dreamfire]

[quote author=maggiethecat board=3 thread=1122145643 post=1146871587And here's my two cents . . .

Who knows if Jim could have gotten what he wanted out of Nancy Dressler if he hadn't gone as far as he did? It was an interesting idea, and I think it works in context. Stumbling into the chair after locating it with the cane, “Am I facing you?” when he knows he is, telling Nancy he’s newly blind because she’s newly disfigured -- if it's over the top it's deliberate. It’s the only time Dunbar allows himself to appear vulnerable on purpose, and, because he’s so tense throughout the episode (Marty’s sniping hits a new level in MB), to act unskilled and fumbling has an odd effect on him. He can’t track the interview, he keeps winging off into those bleached images of wounded Christie. After all his efforts to minimize the blindness on the job, to suddenly have capitalize on it? Now that’s a neat little psychological landmine right there. For me, the scene underscores Dunbar’s willingness to do whatever he must to close a case, no matter how unpleasant.

I always thought it was a rather tasty little scene . . . and a nifty contrast with using his cane to whack a perp.
[/quote]

Yes I agree the layers in this scene are tremendous. And Detective Dunbar's "acting forte" is being tough in interviews rather than being timid and unthreateneing so I feel Dunbar's first go at being unthreateneing was pretty realistic. I think even Nancy Dressler cringes at the "I'm newly blind" but it works, as BJobsessed pointed out, she does answer his questions and even allows herself to be surprised at her Brothers influence reaching out here.

And the layer of Jim's gettinga little unstuck by the images in his head, the perspiration forming, the effort to stay on track, these seem very real to me, an amazing juxtaposition of the reality of his blindness and how an image can throw him out of reality and into his imagiation compared to the pretence of the clumsiness and timidity. ( is that a word?)

Also for me the groping for the door handle and Karen guiding him to the door just a few moments prior were a poignant reminder of this very same reality.

[Dreamfire]

mlm828 said:

One thing in "Marlon's Brando" has always bothered me. When Jim and Karen return to the squad after Condell's suicide, everyone is concerned about Karen's emotional well-being. Tom tells her Psych Services is ready to come out, and Fisk assures her he's available if she needs him. But no one, including Karen, even asks if Jim is okay. Why? Do they think the incident didn't affect him, because he couldn't see it? (Jim himself seems to subscribe to this theory, telling Galloway Karen will have the image of Condell in her mind for the rest of her life, but he won't. Galloway wisely rejects this theory, telling Jim he experienced the same thing as Karen, but in a different way). Or is it a sexist stereotype -- they expect the incident to upset the woman, but not the man? Or do they just not care whether Jim is okay?

Funny isn't it? Although Karen is upset and possibly traumatised by the suicide, Jim has been the one suffering psychologically all through this episode. There have even been coments " Stop acting like this is your first one ( rape case) " [Although I must admit I can't see how he was acting like it was his first one.]
And. other than Karen prompting Jim for the "nasty image in his head" no one has thought to even ask him what is going on.

I think it is a combination of Guy thing/experienced "old" cop thing and that the cause of his tauma is the "blind thing" which the squad is pretty at a loss on how to handle. To be expected I guess, none have had to deal with this before and I am sure it is not covered in Cop 101.