The Beginning of the "Gun Issue"

[hoosier]

[quote author=mlm828 board=3 thread=1153085681 post=1156373281
Edited to add: Another thought about that waiver. It only applies if Jim gets shot, meaning if he shoots himself with his own gun? I don't think he'd sign a waiver covering his getting shot by a suspect or another cop. [/quote] from mlm post

Jim...shoot himself? By accident??? Say it ain't so! I always assumed it meant if he was involved in a situation where there were other cops and/or suspects and was shot either in a crossfire or by accident.

And Ashatan, good points. I always thought it did seem rather odd that Jim just walked in with no prep--he didn't know where his desk was as an example. I had never thought of what you referred to but the powers that be were negligent in not giving Jim and the others some kind of training before he arrived just to ease the transition for all involved. I guess you can chalk it up to the fact they didn't want him there and expected him to wash out within the week. Why throw time and money into a lost cause? Also, makes better drama!

Jim pulling his gun. In the Pilot, he was the only other officer on scene and it was a contained situation. In Seoul Man, it was pure instinct not good sense. The perp was gone and all he did was freak out the civilians and earn himself a visit from the chief of d's. In Marlon's Brando, pulling it in his apartment, yes. It would have been self-defense. Keeping it out before going into Condell's, no. When he was nailed by Mark Watt, his gun would have hit the floor and who knows who would have ended up with it. I am sure Watt would have had no qualms whatsoever in using it. And it was interesting that in Doggone, Jim was the one who asked Debbie and Sonny if either of them was carrying any weapons when the Latin gentlemen arrived.

[Dreamfire]

carl1951 said:

Now let's get back to my original question: did Jim use good judgment -- or not -- on the several occasions when he drew his gun? Come on, I know you have opinions about this!


NO! Of course he didn't. But, it was fun while it lasted.

And if ABC would have run the rest of series' episodes, I bet that point would have been discussed.

(One thing I always wondered about: I know even though Hank is not a "Police Dog" in the truest sense of the word, he is an extension of a police officer. Why does he not wear a badge?

Later, Carl

I hate to be the one to break this to you Carl, but, other than a skimpy harness that any S&M person would be proud of, Hank, generally, and I can't say for casual, but, well, his attire, is, let me see, missing. So, like the emperor who wore no clothes he has no pocket to hide it in while chasing suspects and no coat to hang it on when he is being official. There, I said it, Hank is a nudist.

Actually, the experssion on Hank's in the pilot, when Jim says I am not a civillian aide says it all. Hank is quite upset that Jim has this opinion of civillian aides, as that is what his actual contract with the NYPD says.

[mlm828]

I know I'm the one who originally posed the question whether Jim exercised good judgment when he drew his gun. But now I'm wondering if that was the right question to ask. If you're in a situation where you may need to pull out a gun (admittedly, I have never been in such a situation and hope I never will be), there isn't a lot of time for reflection and consideration. I would think you just have to act on -- instinct. So I'm beginning to think that ashatan and the Chief are right -- if Jim is going to carry a gun, he needs to develop new instincts. And I'll just add this: the times we see him draw the gun indicate he hasn't developed new instincts, so it's probably a good idea he gave it up.

[Dreamfire]

mlm828 said:

ashatan said:

Hey, anyone know what a rip actually is?

It's a suspension.

thankyou ;D

[mlm828]

hoosier said:

Jim...shoot himself? By accident??? Say it ain't so! I always assumed it meant if he was involved in a situation where there were other cops and/or suspects and was shot either in a crossfire or by accident.

I agree it's unlikely Jim would accidentally shoot himself with his own gun. I was just trying to figure out exactly what he waived when he signed the "liability waiver" he mentioned to Fisk. After careful legal analysis , I concluded there isn't anything he could have waived, because if he's injured on the job, it would be covered by worker's comp, and he can't waive his worker's comp rights under New York law.

So my "final answer" on the waiver is, "Hey, it's a TV show!" ;D

[maggiethecat]

mlm828 said:

ashatan said:

Hey, anyone know what a rip actually is?

It's a suspension.

I believe "rip" is shorthand for reprimand, or Official Reprimand. An Official Reprimand is a report issued by your superior that goes in your "jacket," or file. Reprimands are given to officers for a variety of reasons: using excessing force (although I doubt Fisk gave Jim a rip for landing a few good ones on Doyle!), chronic insubordination, etc. In the context in which Fisk used it -- as a warning to both Dunbar and Russo -- it's appropriate.

And now back to Jim and the gun!

You bet it's a TV show. And one of the ways we know it's being written in "TV show mode" is that -- sighted or not -- Jim just keeps pullin' that gun, episode after episode after episode. As we've talked about before, many, if not most, real NYPD detectives go their entire career without pulling their gun once, let along firing it. The only TV show I've ever see get this right is Law & Order, in which Jerry Orbach played Detective Lennie Briscoe for something like twelve years and the character never drew his gun more than once or twice in all that time.

I can only think of two times when Jim used a gun to anything other than disastrous -- or at the very least, problematic -- effect, both in The Pilot: first, when he grabs Terry's Browning and kills the gunman, and second, when he draws on Randy Lyman. Yes, it's a shatteringly unsettling experience for him, but he collared The Tongue Killer so I'd put that in the success column.

Here's a thought, albeit a minor one. The Chief of Ds didn't come down on Jim for directly aiming his gun at a suspect his second day back on the job -- but he gives him an that famous ass-kicking in "Seoul Man" just for pulling it out in public for all of 30 seconds. So, does this mean Tunney will cut you slack if you pull your gun to close the case? Heh.

[mlm828]

maggiethecat said:

I believe "rip" is shorthand for reprimand, or Official Reprimand. An Official Reprimand is a report issued by your superior that goes in your "jacket," or file. Reprimands are given to officers for a variety of reasons: using excessing force (although I doubt Fisk gave Jim a rip for landing a few good ones on Doyle!), chronic insubordination, etc. In the context in which Fisk used it -- as a warning to both Dunbar and Russo -- it's appropriate.

Mea culpa! I thought "rip" meant suspension, because I vaguely recalled reading that definition somewhere, and because Fisk tells Jim, in "Under the Gun," that he took "a ten-day rip" when he lost his gun.

However, a little Internet research revealed several sites which give this definition of "rip": "loss in pay due to a disciplinary infraction such as unauthorized moonlighting." So now we know.

[Dreamfire]

I just remembered another time Jim draws his gun. With no particular consequence - just before he hears the gun shots on the roof in "Up on the Roof.