Christie Dunbar -- villain or goddess?

[hoosier]

[quote author=maggiethecat board=oa thread=1125110506

You never know whan he walks in the door, if Dunbar is going to find the loving supportive woman he fantasizes about or the icy, judgmental goddess.[/quote]

How many of us have put someone on a pedestal only to be disappointed because that person fails to live up to our expectations or to conform to our notion of the 'ideal'? Maybe Jim thought Christie was his 'ideal' woman, the one he had been looking for and the woman who still lives in his dreams but the reality turned out to be totally different. He knows he has a lot to atone for but seems committed to making his marriage work.

[kytdunne]

hoosier said:

maggiethecat said:

You never know whan he walks in the door, if Dunbar is going to find the loving supportive woman he fantasizes about or the icy, judgmental goddess.

How many of us have put someone on a pedestal only to be disappointed because that person fails to live up to our expectations or to conform to our notion of the 'ideal'? Maybe Jim thought Christie was his 'ideal' woman, the one he had been looking for and the woman who still lives in his dreams but the reality turned out to be totally different. He knows he has a lot to atone for but seems committed to making his marriage work.

I've never been favorably impressed with Dunbar's recalls of past interactions with Christie, so she hasn't registered with me as anyone's fantasy woman.

But more to the point:

I don't believe Christie could hold herself in check long enough to fool Dunbar into thinking he was marrying someone other than who she is.

But I think he'd have completely baffled her.

Dunbar with Christie dead center of his attention, someone he wants, a goal to achieve. He puts Christie at the top of his Goals List and she's got all his attention. Right up until he's got her, is convinced of that, and then he automatically reverts to giving his job top priority. And Christie's left wondering what the hell just happened to her marriage.

She's high maintenance and he hasn't been doing the maintenance to the level she'd been taught to expect during the courting.

Just another take,
Kyt

[doobrah]

maggiethecat said:

I still think that a large part of the way the character was written was to add as much "trouble & strife" as possible to Dunbar's life.

LIGHT BULB MOMENT!!
I love it that you used the Cockney word/phrase for wife --"trouble and strife" -- to describe Christie.

I wonder if that phrase ever occurred to the writers... it really could explain a lot.

[greenbeing]

kytdunne said:

I've never been favorably impressed with Dunbar's recalls of past interactions with Christie, so she hasn't registered with me as anyone's fantasy woman.

I totally agree with that, Kyt! Every memory of her, or fantasy of her, as the case may be, leaves much to be desired. If these are Jim's ideal visions of Christie, that tells us a lot about the relationship based on what it doesn't say.

--GB

[shmeep]

kytdunne said:

Dunbar with Christie dead center of his attention, someone he wants, a goal to achieve. He puts Christie at the top of his Goals List and she's got all his attention. Right up until he's got her, is convinced of that, and then he automatically reverts to giving his job top priority. And Christie's left wondering what the hell just happened to her marriage.

This is a very interesting and insightful analysis of what may have been going on in their marriage. I think that sort of thing happens, to some extent, in most marriages. Our pre-marital behavior (the bait) gives way to our post-marital behavior (the switch) and our spouse is left thinking WTF? It's not always intentional, but I'm sure even the best of us do this, at least on a sub-conscious level.

If this happened in the way you theorize, Christie has many reasons to feel baffled by the marriage--and it would explain this comment she made to Galloway: "A lot has changed since we've been married." On the most basic level, she could mean the affair(s) or the blindness, but how interesting if it really had more to do with her position in Jim's hierarchy. Hmm. Making me think, as always, Kyt. Thanks.

Of course, I still like her and I find her temperamental behavior quite believable and even understandable. I find their marriage fascinating.

[hoosier]

I was also thinking along the lines that Jim and Christie were smitten with each other and people tend to overlook any flaws the other has. They are both good-looking, successful, fun to be with etc.,etc. And I agree with Shmeep, that people tend to be on their best behavior when dating and then something happens with marriage--the gloves are off so to speak.

And Jim's little aside to Tom in the locker room in Dance with Me--asking if he and his girlfriend lived together and said that he was smart not to--wonder if Jim and Christie 'co-habitated' before they were married? Hmmm.

[kytdunne]

admin said:

I think that sort of thing happens, to some extent, in most marriages. Our pre-marital behavior (the bait) gives way to our post-marital behavior (the switch) and our spouse is left thinking WTF? It's not always intentional, but I'm sure even the best of us do this, at least on a sub-conscious level.

It always happens, how can it not? But given Dunbar's established penchant for exclusive focus - to the temporary discard of other issues - the change would've been far more pronounced. Add in Christie's high maintenance levels and that'll increase her feelings of abandonment.

admin said:

Of course, I still like her and I find her temperamental behavior quite believable and even understandable. I find their marriage fascinating.

I think Christie epitomizes the worst of female stereotypes. Storywise, her temper tantrums add some exasperating drama, and her swift mood changes leave Dunbar on quicksand. She's effective as a character who keeps Dunbar's home life challenging.

If Dunbar wasn't solidly confident in his abilities as a detective (the blindness adds a transformation to work around, through and with, but his base confidence has to be solid), between Christie's chaos at home and the battles on the streets, he'd have never made it back to the department.

Kyt

Edited for a minor fix. I have to remember to hit preview instead of post.

[greenbeing]

kytdunne said:

I think Christie epitomizes the worst of female stereotypes. Storywise, her temper tantrums add some exasperating drama, and her swift mood changes leave Dunbar on quicksand. She's effective as a character who keeps Dunbar's home life challenging.

I think I also saw Christie as "the worst of female stereotypes" because sometimes I take offense at her behavior and hope people don't think all women are like her.

I'm curious what people think about her behavior in the Pilot before dinner. Jim comes home, she has spent time fixing a delightful dinner, has candles lit... Which he can't possibly know she has this romantic candlelit dinner planned.

She comes over, ready for a big greeting, he feeds the dog, she's hurt. Is she really that pissed off that she's immediately going for the jugular? "I'm just surprised they put you on a major case your first day." Ouch. She can think it, but in this situation, unless you were planning to push some buttons, wouldn't you censor yourself? She actually didn't say it meanly, but you can tell she was ready and raring for a fight, the way everything bubbled to the surface. Maybe she couldn't contain it, and I don't think she planned it that way, but it looked like she had been waiting for the first opportunity she got. Bad timing on her part, and maybe she really needed to air the dirty linen...

I realize part of it was the writers wanting everyone to know this wasn't a peachy marriage. But in the context of the show, I would have liked to see her try a little longer in that scene before she went off. "I've dealt with people doubting me all day, and I don't need that when I come home." It seems pretty blatant he's had a rotten day there and he's warning her she's treading on thin ice. She totally ignored it, didn't even try to be civilized after that, just kept harping on him. They've been married five years. I, at least, would think she'd know by now he doesn't like to talk about a bad day.

--GB

[maggiethecat]

This was moved over from the "New Take on the Pilot" thread.

Eyephur wrote:

Where is Four feet Under do we learn that Christie is in the fashion business? Is it something that should just be inferred from the way she dresses? I just listened to the audio description of Four Feet Under and I didn't hear it mentioned? I'm not sure I ever picked it up from watching the show that she was in the fashion business, I'm almost certain that I picked up that idea on a forum. Could someone get me straighten me out?

maggiethecat replied:

Sorry for being unclear -- it's just the way we've been referring to the woman, generally, on the board. Christie is a magazine editor -- we have several references to that all along -- but it's not until the beginning of "Marlon's Brando" that we get the reference to Fashion Week.

And here's my new thought for the day: I think that most of the info in "Four Feet Under" comes from the disastrous dinner party at Clay's. That's a veddy posh crowd, rather lushly dressed for a dinner party in the middle of the week. Fashion magazine, or magazine with a style section -- I think it's pretty clear that Miz Dunbar is not exactly a foreign correspondent!

[mlm828]

maggiethecat said:

Christie is a magazine editor -- we have several references to that all along -- but it's not until the beginning of "Marlon's Brando" that we get the reference to Fashion Week.

And here's my new thought for the day: I think that most of the info in "Four Feet Under" comes from the disastrous dinner party at Clay's. That's a veddy posh crowd, rather lushly dressed for a dinner party in the middle of the week. Fashion magazine, or magazine with a style section -- I think it's pretty clear that Miz Dunbar is not exactly a foreign correspondent!

In case anyone was wondering, this week is "Fashion Week": www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/02/07/fashion.week.trends.ap/index.html

[inuvik]

mlm828 said:

In case anyone was wondering, this week is "Fashion Week": www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/02/07/fashion.week.trends.ap/index.html

Thanks for this!

What a shame though. Reminds us that another year has past since we began enjoying BJ. (almost a year, March 8 to be exact)

[doobrah]

inuvik said:

Reminds us that another year has past since we began enjoying BJ. (almost a year, March 8 to be exact)

Yeah, last year this time we were enjoying all those extended BJ promos that ABC showed 20 times a day. Sigh.

[greenbeing]

What is up with this chick and her chickens?



Directly behind her right shoulder in this pic... That makes three so far! Apparently Gonzo isn't the only one who likes Camilla and friends...

--GB

[hoosier]

greenbeing said:

What is up with this chick and her chickens?



Directly behind her right shoulder in this pic... That makes three so far! Apparently Gonzo isn't the only one who likes Camilla and friends...

--GB

It also looks like Christie had a rather restless night---or just hasn't had time to put on her make-up yet ;D

Must be a NY fad. Here we have gone through the cow fad (dairy not beef) and still have the white goose on the front porch that can be dressed for the season and the occasion. What is with that I have yet to see a goose in a bathing suit though I have to admit that the cutest one was the one sporting the red earmuffs last winter. There is no goose on my front porch nor a holstein cow in my kitchen but I do have a little green rooster, a little brown rooster and an American primitive rooster on the shelf. Does this qualify as a chicken fetish or a chicken aficionado?