Too Perfect?

[mlm828]

maggiethecat said:

I wonder if Jim's "relaxing" and appearing less self-conscious about his blindness as the series progressed had to do with the writing, or an actor settling into a role and adding details to a performance?

Not that Ron Eldard didn't hit the ground running! As I've said about 85 times, the performance was already there in The Pilot in terms of both subtlety and strength. As for trailing his hands along walls and table edges, I always noticed that because from the beginning it seemed to be so much an integral part of the character as to be unconscious on RE's part.

Maybe I'm giving too much credit to RE and the writers and directors, but I think they intentionally showed him as less self-conscious about "looking blind" in the later episodes. He does many of the same things he did in the earlier episodes -- trailing his hands along the walls and furniture and reaching out for things -- but he seems to be more open about it in the later episodes. I think this was intended to show him becoming more comfortable with his co-workers and less concerned about appearing blind to them. This makes sense to me in the context of the events in the last few episodes -- for example, going to the sports bar with Tom and Marty in "In Your Face," Marty's offer to help look for Hank in "Doggone," the squad backing him up in "Under the Gun" (even if Marty was somewhat reluctant), and Karen telling him she'd be his partner, no matter what.

I agree with the earlier posts pointing out the numerous scenes showing Jim's vulnerability and the challenges he has to deal with. However, in most of these instances, he has difficulties because of something someone else did -- for example, Marty leaving the furniture out of place, or the bike messenger knocking him down. We don't often see Jim getting into trouble because of a mistake he has made.

The biggest exception to this is "Doggone," where it can be argued the whole episode arises out of a series of mistakes by Jim, beginning when he goes along with Sonny's "blind drug dealer" scheme, and his ego won't let him tell Fisk he can't handle it. The whole squad makes the mistake of going into the drug deal with no contingency plan and no back-up for Tom and Marty. And for some unknown reason, Jim fails to take his cane with him. Then Jim is in Debbie's car for a full half hour, going somewhere, and he doesn't think to ask where they're going or where they are at any point along the way. (Even if Debbie wouldn't have said where they were going, and even if Sonny didn't know their destination, surely Sonny would have told him where they were, if asked). Then Jim makes the critical error of leaving Hank in the car.

The upside of all these mistakes is that we get to see one of the few times when Jim actually shows his frustration at not being able to see, as he stumbles along the fence and yells wordlessly (in my head, I always hear him cussing at this point). No doubt this is because no one is around (other than the film crew, of course, but that's a topic for the "Blooper Reel" thread). The only other time that even comes close is in "Rub a Tub Tub," after his second collision with the furniture, when he slams the chair out of the way. But, of course, there's no way he's going to erupt and give Marty the satisfaction of knowing he's gotten to him.

[maggiethecat]

How did I miss this gorgeous and thoughtful post? Blame it on the holidays, I guess . . .

mlm828 said:

I agree with the earlier posts pointing out the numerous scenes showing Jim's vulnerability and the challenges he has to deal with. However, in most of these instances, he has difficulties because of something someone else did -- for example, Marty leaving the furniture out of place, or the bike messenger knocking him down. We don't often see Jim getting into trouble because of a mistake he has made.

The biggest exception to this is "Doggone," where it can be argued the whole episode arises out of a series of mistakes by Jim, beginning when he goes along with Sonny's "blind drug dealer" scheme, and his ego won't let him tell Fisk he can't handle it.

Granted, we have to go with the scenario for the sake of the ensuing drama, but weren't we all at that point sreaming at the screen, "No, this will never work! Sonny is an idiot!

mlm828 said:

The whole squad makes the mistake of going into the drug deal with no contingency plan and no back-up for Tom and Marty.

The one episode in which they all seemed like rookies. There. I said it.

mlm828 said:

And for some unknown reason, Jim fails to take his cane with him.

Maybe this refers back to my original post in "Dressing the Dunbars," but Jim only seemed to pack the cane when he was wearing the Burberry with the capacious inner pocket. Again, probably a choice made for the sake of the drama, but would the cane have fitted into the sleek "Ted" leather jacket? Probably not. And while we're on the subject, where did Dunbar get that black overcoat he came home in that night? Plenty of wardrobe in the locker, eh Jimmy?

mlm828 said:

Then Jim is in Debbie's car for a full half hour, going somewhere, and he doesn't think to ask where they're going or where they are at any point along the way. (Even if Debbie wouldn't have said where they were going, and even if Sonny didn't know their destination, surely Sonny would have told him where they were, if asked).

Why did no one -- including Fisk -- think to "tag" Jim with a small and undetectable tracking device? Sure, it's a given that he'd be frisked for a gun, but a tracking device no larger than a walnut would have made all the difference. (Heck, hide it in Hank's collar.) That said . . . this episode was all about the stunning scene where's Dunbar is lost and vulnerable and crying out to the universe . . . so no tracking device.

mlm828 said:

Then Jim makes the critical error of leaving Hank in the car. The upside of all these mistakes is that we get to see one of the few times when Jim actually shows his frustration at not being able to see, as he stumbles along the fence and yells wordlessly (in my head, I always hear him cussing at this point).

The one time when perfection -- too perfect? -- goes out the window. Jim messed up, the squad messed up, Sonny messed up. Everyone blew it.

But what great drama!

[janna]

maggiethecat said:

Granted, we have to go with the scenario for the sake of the ensuing drama, but weren't we all at that point sreaming at the screen, "No, this will never work! Sonny is an idiot!

Maybe this refers back to my original post in "Dressing the Dunbars," but Jim only seemed to pack the cane when he was wearing the Burberry with the capacious inner pocket. Again, probably a choice made for the sake of the drama, but would the cane have fitted into the sleek "Ted" leather jacket? Probably not. And while we're on the subject, where did Dunbar get that black overcoat he came home in that night? Plenty of wardrobe in the locker, eh Jimmy?

That said . . . this episode was all about the stunning scene where's Dunbar is lost and vulnerable and crying out to the universe . . . so no tracking device.

But what great drama!

Yes, I have already thought about it too. This was for the sake of increasing emotions (I mean the emotions of watchers). He might had brought the cane with him (or the dog) and it wouldn't had seemed so vulnerable. However this solution works: I have felt my stomach becoming a little knot when I have seen it (honestly the audiodescription have been enough for it).

[mlm828]

janna said:

maggiethecat said:

That said . . . this episode was all about the stunning scene where Dunbar is lost and vulnerable and crying out to the universe . . . so no tracking device.

But what great drama!

Yes, I have already thought about it too. This was for the sake of increasing emotions (I mean the emotions of watchers). He might had brought the cane with him (or the dog) and it wouldn't had seemed so vulnerable. However this solution works: I have felt my stomach becoming a little knot when I have seen it (honestly the audiodescription have been enough for it).

I totally agree. The scene where Jim finds his way along the fence remains one of my favorite scenes in the whole series.

maggiethecat said:

And while we're on the subject, where did Dunbar get that black overcoat he came home in that night? Plenty of wardrobe in the locker, eh Jimmy?

Good point! I always wondered, too, where that coat came from.

[Dreamfire]

mlm828 said:

maggiethecat said:

I wonder if Jim's "relaxing" and appearing less self-conscious about his blindness as the series progressed had to do with the writing, or an actor settling into a role and adding details to a performance?

Not that Ron Eldard didn't hit the ground running! As I've said about 85 times, the performance was already there in The Pilot in terms of both subtlety and strength. As for trailing his hands along walls and table edges, I always noticed that because from the beginning it seemed to be so much an integral part of the character as to be unconscious on RE's part.

Maybe I'm giving too much credit to RE and the writers and directors, but I think they intentionally showed him as less self-conscious about "looking blind" in the later episodes. He does many of the same things he did in the earlier episodes -- trailing his hands along the walls and furniture and reaching out for things -- but he seems to be more open about it in the later episodes. I think this was intended to show him becoming more comfortable with his co-workers and less concerned about appearing blind to them. This makes sense to me in the context of the events in the last few episodes -- for example, going to the sports bar with Tom and Marty in "In Your Face," Marty's offer to help look for Hank in "Doggone," the squad backing him up in "Under the Gun" (even if Marty was somewhat reluctant), and Karen telling him she'd be his partner, no matter what.

\
My theory is also that RE had the mannerisms down pat from day 1. I know this is gushy but he pulled it off 100% from the first shot to the last in my mind.
I suspect he didn't "add" mannerisms as he went along.

But instead it was that the editors became more relaxed about showing blindisms. Thinsg such as trailing a wall or fumbling for a handshake as they went and so cut the shots later.

One I noticed being cut is Jim bumping into Karen when she stops in front of him. For example, in the pillot, when Jim follows Karen out of the interview room after getting Lyman to confess, he walks up the huddle of detectives and bumps into Karen. Probably foot to foot. But the editors cut it. Also in Rub a TubTub, he follows her into Fisk's office, bumps into her and moves behind, but the editors cut it out.

Probably to make him more palatable to the audience () And I noticed they got less strict about it especially inthelast 3-4 shows.

Anyone else think this is possible?
n

[Chocky]

How did you know some scenes had been cut?

[Dreamfire]

Hi Chocky, Sorry if I was confusing, I'm not saying scenes are cut out but that where the editors cut the takes is just before the blindisms in the earlier shows but not so in the later ones. Does that make sense?

Like if the entire take is 2 minutes long, the editor has to decide where to pick it up and where to end it. My theory is that they ended before we got to see Jim bump into Karen for example in the earlier ones but later on they were not so strict.

If this does not make sense, please tell me.

;D

[maggiethecat]

ashatan said:

Hi Chocky, Sorry if I was confusing, I'm not saying scenes are cut out but that where the editors cut the takes is just before the blindisms in the earlier shows but not so in the later ones. Does that make sense?

Hmmmm . . . I have to say . . . uh . . . no sense to me! We have absolutely no way of knowing what was cut and what was not cut, or even how the various scenes were edited.

This starts with the script and continues with the actor or the director; there may be a different amount of blind mannerisms or moments in the first three episodes, for instance, because they were all directed by the same director.

Perhaps it was just the character seeming more relaxed about what he had to do to get around, and get through the day. And, therefore, the actor seeming more relaxed. The first time Jim does anything we haven't seen him do before -- such as the famous first walk into Fisk's office on his own -- much is made of it. After that, business as usual so of course everyone seems more relaxed.

But until the DVD set with the extras like bloopers is released, I really don't see how any of us can make the case for editing cuts for which we have no proof.

Personally, I think RE used the same gestures and mannerisms throughout -- maybe we all just perceived them differently because of the context.

[maggiethecat]

chocky said:

How did you know some scenes had been cut?

Again, no way to know . . . and I am so-o-o confused!

Back to the original conundrum posed by mlm88: Too perfect?!

[janna]

Maybe I'm giving too much credit to RE and the writers and directors, but I think they intentionally showed him as less self-conscious about "looking blind" in the later episodes. He does many of the same things he did in the earlier episodes -- trailing his hands along the walls and furniture and reaching out for things -- but he seems to be more open about it in the later episodes. I think this was intended to show him becoming more comfortable with his co-workers and less concerned about appearing blind to them.

I agree with that. I have seen FFW in wednesday firstly, and he uses trailing more often then earlier.

And about the main topic: what he has never did is searching objects, fallen ones or just what he has putted down earlier (and somebody has moved or just he has not exactly remembered). However objects are like this: they can just loose.

[mlm828]

janna said:

I agree with that. I have seen FFW in wednesday firstly, and he uses trailing more often then earlier.

And about the main topic: what he has never did is searching objects, fallen ones or just what he has putted down earlier (and somebody has moved or just he has not exactly remembered). However objects are like this: they can just loose.

Exactly! ;D That's why I think he's just a little "too perfect."

[maggiethecat]

Hmmm. Could the greater number of "trailing" shots in the later episodes have anything to do with the topic -- often discussed here -- that the earlier episodes were more tightly written the therefore contained no "filler" at all? (I mean, we all know the Astaire dream sequence went on longer than the shoot-out at the bank, right? And how much time did we waste in The Le Sabre?!)

As for never needing to look for dropped objects, I think it's part of the character of Dunbar that he was always as precise as he could be so as not to look fumbling or awkward -- all right, too blind -- in front of his co-workers. I don't call that too perfect -- I call that proud. We do see him fumble for his coffee cup a few times at his desk, and when he was truly rattled -- when Hank was missing -- he couldn't get the phone back on the cradle to the extent that Fisk noticed it.

So I still come down on the side of proud and highly functional rather than too perfect.

[hoosier]

maggiethecat said:

Hmmm. Could the greater number of "trailing" shots in the later episodes have anything to do with the topic -- often discussed here -- that the earlier episodes were more tightly written the therefore contained no "filler" at all? (I mean, we all know the Astaire dream sequence went on longer than the shoot-out at the bank, right? And how much time did we waste in The Le Sabre?!)


So I still come down on the side of proud and highly functional rather than too perfect.

I would have to agree. Jim worked very hard to get back to the job and he wouldn't have wanted to draw the wrong kind of attention to himself by appearing to be "too blind". Everyone was expecting him to fail and being akward or less than sure of himself in any situation would have added more fuel to the fire. That explains why, on his second day of work, he went in early to memorize the layout of the squad room and probably why he hadn't done it before. Its possible he thought he could 'wing' it and was proved wrong in the worst way by being led into Karen's desk. He didn't even make that big a deal about the furniture until he felt that Marty was blatantly leaving it out on purpose. Later, he would have felt more comfortable and would have let others see some things he had been so careful to conceal.

However, it will be interesting to see those blooper outtakes and deleted scenes to see if any of this was true!