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Post by anna on Jun 17, 2006 10:36:09 GMT -5
I just finished reading Cockeyed, a memoir by Ryan Knighton, a Canadian writer and teacher who lost his sight to RP. It’s very insightful and very funny. Very funny. At one point last night I was gasping for breath.
One section caught my attention and made me think about RE’s portrayal of Jim.
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What I did not expect, nor could I have anticipated, was the loss of my own face to others. Because I don’t see faces anymore, I seem to have, well, stopped giving face. I’m giving up on its expressiveness, its animated reactions to the world, despite knowing that others look at my expression and can spot it quite well. You could say I’m losing touch with my face, even losing some control of it. If you don’t receive the facial expressions of others, you forget to give back in kind. . . . Inside, I’m engaged by what I’m hearing around me, experiencing pleasure in the textures of thought or the surrounding fracas of restaurant talk, but I look pissed off. My face characterizes me as serious and dour, even consistently angry, according to my students. But that isn’t how I feel. I’ve simply forgotten my face. I’m not indifferent or retreating from the world around me but from my face itself.
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We have tended to attribute Jim’s somewhat blank expression at times to hard-won patience and even stoicism. However, now I wonder if RE was including a bit of this as well.
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Post by inuvik on Jun 17, 2006 12:28:51 GMT -5
Thanks for this Anna. This is really interesting. I think I'll add the book to my long, long, list too.
As for whether RE was incorporating this--as much as we all admire his acting skills, I doubt it. None of us have thought of this yet. We know he did some research before the show with blind people. I think it's more likely that he observed many of them had blank expressions, and copied that. As for whether he knew why they had blank expressions, I think it's unlikely.
Fascinating stuff! I will have to think about this some more.
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Post by mlm828 on Jun 17, 2006 13:07:22 GMT -5
Here are some reflections on the same topic, from the book Touching the Rock, by John Hull:
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Post by maggiethecat on Jun 17, 2006 13:45:58 GMT -5
As for whether RE was incorporating this--as much as we all admire his acting skills, I doubt it. None of us have thought of this yet. We know he did some research before the show with blind people. I think it's more likely that he observed many of them had blank expressions, and copied that. As for whether he knew why they had blank expressions, I think it's unlikely. And I never thought Ron Eldard's face looked blank, not for a nano-second. I just thought he looked, in his less openly expressive moments, as though Dunbar was concentrating, or listening, hard, to what was going on around him, like overlapping dialogue.  |
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Post by bjobsessed on Jun 17, 2006 18:25:35 GMT -5
Thanks for mentioning both books. They sound very interesting. I think I will try to find them.
I never thought RE had a blank expression either. He always seemed to be listening to what was going on around him or thinking. He may have had a blank stare once in a while which would just come from not being able to see, but never a blank expression that I can remember.
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Post by Dreamfire on Jun 18, 2006 5:02:43 GMT -5
I just finished reading Cockeyed, a memoir by Ryan Knighton, a Canadian writer and teacher who lost his sight to RP. It’s very insightful and very funny. Very funny. At one point last night I was gasping for breath. One section caught my attention and made me think about RE’s portrayal of Jim. ======== What I did not expect, nor could I have anticipated, was the loss of my own face to others. Because I don’t see faces anymore, I seem to have, well, stopped giving face. I’m giving up on its expressiveness, its animated reactions to the world, despite knowing that others look at my expression and can spot it quite well. You could say I’m losing touch with my face, even losing some control of it. If you don’t receive the facial expressions of others, you forget to give back in kind. . . . Inside, I’m engaged by what I’m hearing around me, experiencing pleasure in the textures of thought or the surrounding fracas of restaurant talk, but I look pissed off. My face characterizes me as serious and dour, even consistently angry, according to my students. But that isn’t how I feel. I’ve simply forgotten my face. I’m not indifferent or retreating from the world around me but from my face itself. ======== We have tended to attribute Jim’s somewhat blank expression at times to hard-won patience and even stoicism. However, now I wonder if RE was including a bit of this as well. Clearly we don't know, Anna, but I am in some agreement with you. I think Ron did heaps of research and really got into the whole mode of blindness. which could have included this. It occoured to me at some point while watching him and noticing how hard he was to read, that he was not naturally expressive unless the emotion was fairly extreme. And that he seemed quite "conscious"f his expressions generally. I may not have used the word blank to describe his face but I would not altogether dismiss it either. Thanks for the book names too, must try and get them. Natascha |
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Post by anna on Jun 18, 2006 8:35:07 GMT -5
I agree that blank wasn't a good word to use to describe the expressions that I was talking about. Maybe neutral?
RE may have done enough research (see below) to come across comments like the ones above and incorporated them into his portrayal - or maybe not. Like I said, I wonder.
In the TV Guide interview, Bochco said about RE, "He's totally thrown himself into the notion of being blind. He's committed to trying to internalize that altered sensibility."
From the same article: "Eldard - who had played a blind man once before, in 1998's "Deep Impact" - immersed himself in research to be convincing as Dunbar. After spending weeks blindfolded, using a cane to navigate and attending schools for the blind, he came to understand how blind people often feel invisible in public."
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Post by mlm828 on Jun 19, 2006 13:54:12 GMT -5
Since we have come across two writers independently writing about the phenomenon of "losing" facial expressions after the loss of sight, it's certainly something RE could have read about in his research and preparation for the role. However, on many occasions when we don't see a reaction in "Jim Dunbar's" facial expression, I think it's because he's in a situation where he doesn't want his expression to show his reaction.
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Post by hoosier on Jun 24, 2006 16:36:03 GMT -5
It makes total sense when you think about it--the lack of reciprocating facial expression. I remember when my nephew first smiled at me (even though my sister said it was just gas, yeah right, I noticed it was a smile when he flashed one her way!), babies are responding too and imitating what they see. If someone smiles at you, you tend to smile back etc. Obviously the blind can not do this. I have to agree with mlm that sometimes Jim doesn't want people to see his reaction and purposely keeps his emotions under wraps. He's afraid that he will give himself away since he can't see the other people's responses.
As to RE consciously or unconsciously doing this, I have no idea. He would have to have noticed it during his reseach so I would prefer to think that he is very observant and acted accordingly!
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Post by Dreamfire on Aug 24, 2006 1:36:01 GMT -5
Interesting article on mirror nuerons in a recent Scientific American which discusses how the human brain mimics experssions and behavious it sees. So if you see someone smile, even if you don't respond, your "smile neurons" also fire.
Anyone else catch this article?
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Post by bjobsessed on Aug 24, 2006 1:38:01 GMT -5
Interesting article on mirror nuerons in a recent Scientific American which discusses how the human brain mimics experssions and behavious it sees. So if you see someone smile, even if you don't respond, your "smile neurons" also fire. Anyone else catch this article? No. But it sound like an interesting read. Is it online? I don't know if I can find that magazine. |
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Post by Dreamfire on Aug 24, 2006 1:43:29 GMT -5
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Post by Dreamfire on Sept 10, 2006 2:11:19 GMT -5
Just came across one of my favorite Dunbar expressions. The smile he does when a suspect lands confirmation of his guilt/lies in Dunbar's lap and he knows he is on the right track.  |
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Post by Katryna on Sept 10, 2006 10:12:45 GMT -5
Just came across one of my favorite Dunbar expressions. The smile he does when a suspect lands confirmation of his guilt/lies in Dunbar's lap and he knows he is on the right track. Dress him like Jim and throw his pair of hingeless sunglasses on him, and I guess it means that on March 12 he knew that Mary and I were guilty of seeing Doubt two days in a row! (I was going to add fix his hair, but really - not too far off! Just needs the slanted sideburns.)  |
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Post by rducasey on Sept 10, 2006 11:42:01 GMT -5
Just came across one of my favorite Dunbar expressions. The smile he does when a suspect lands confirmation of his guilt/lies in Dunbar's lap and he knows he is on the right track. Dress him like Jim and throw his pair of hingeless sunglasses on him, and I guess it means that on March 12 he knew that Mary and I were guilty of seeing Doubt two days in a row! (I was going to add fix his hair, but really - not too far off! Just needs the slanted sideburns.) Oh oh Kathy, is that what that grin meant in that great picture you took. And I thought we were getting away with it. |
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