Halloween

[Deleted]

Great job at that research, Lori and quite an interesting read!!!! So basically it's a British tradition. Isn't that interesting.....

[Kasman]

divinemrse said:

kasman said:

Frankly, Matilda, I get really cranky when Aussie kids do the Halloween Trick or Treat thing because we just have never done that here. The poor unfortunates who knock on my door get told, "This isn't America, go away."

Kaz...who is a total meanie

Well, posts like this one kind of boil my blood over, so I did a little research. Here is a link on the tradition of Trick or Treating you all my find interesting: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trick-or-treating

However, I should point out that:

"...The activity is popular in the United States, the United Kingdom, Ireland, Canada, and due to increased American cultural influence in recent years, imported through exposure to US television and other media, trick-or-treating has started to occur among children in many parts of Europe, and in the Saudi Aramco camps of Dhahran, Akaria compounds and Ras Tanura in Saudi Arabia. The most significant growth — and resistance — is in the United Kingdom, where the police have threatened to prosecute parents who allow their children to carry out the "trick" element. ..."

Many cultures and traditions go on right here in the States and I for one welcome them as part of a growth and learning experience. Geez, if I told people "this isn't ......, now go away" I fear I would be living under a rock.

Need I point out, this is Australia? We need to maintain a little of our individuality, and yes, I knew it started in England but out kids identify Halloween as more an American thing. Nowhere is Australia mentioned on that list of countries that celebrate Halloween.

No offence intended, but the fact is, Australia losing its identity with great rapidity and it just makes my blood boil.

[krissie]

With trepidation, I'm going to add my voice to the 'meanie' camp.

Here's an article that the Beeb published this week. To be honest, I found myself applauding a lot of what the journalist had to say.

I have a theory: it's not so much the trick or treating that's the problem, but that we (and I am using the term very loosely here to mean the British) don't have bedded in the customs surrounding the way the trick or treating visits should be conducted. What works well in the US doesn't seem to work very well here.

Yes, the British have lots of hallowe'en customs, but trick or treating was never really one of them... at least not in England. And therein, I suspect, lies a lot of the problems. When I was a kid, we had parties and dressing up and bobbing for apples and things like that. But we did not go around door to door between other people's houses. And the shops were not full of hallowe'en candy, masks, costumes or plastic pumpkins.

(In fact, the first time I saw anything like that was when I was in Canada, in the late 1980s. That was also the first time I ever encountered trick or treaters.)

Now, as far as I can understand, in the US and Canada, there are definite rules of etiquette that trick or treaters follow: porch light off, don't go to the house... and so on.

Because trick or treating has only become big business over here in the last decade of so, only those people with kids (and maybe not even them) will discuss / know what is okay and what is not.

For the older childless, trick or treating is vaguely intimidating. And I know from last year that if you leave your porch light off that will not discourage people from coming to your door. Heck, I didn't even know that was a rule! The only safe thing to do is switch all your lights off and pretend not to be in. But that strikes me as being horrifically unfair because it makes you a prisoner in your own home.

As things stand at present, if you don't want to take part in hallowe'en shenanigans, you are likely to get laughed at (or worse).

Does any of that make sense?

I should also point out that when I was a kid, very little emphasis was placed on hallowe'en because it was so close to Bonfire Night (5th November). That was always a much bigger deal here. (Still is a big deal, but...)

I could rant on some more, but that will do for now...

Krissie

[Deleted]

Okay, this topic appears to have disaster written all over it, so I'm just going to mosey on over to another part of the board.

[matilda]

Many cultures and traditions go on right here in the States and I for one welcome them as part of a growth and learning experience. Geez, if I told people "this isn't ......, now go away" I fear I would be living under a rock.[/quote]


Don't go yet Barb - yahoo to you on this one. My thoughts, sentiments and views exactly, and I'll add:

Sorry for creating people not feeling nice (blood boiling etc).

In my view, and it's how we raise our kids, in Australia's very, very short modern history we've developed lots of customs and traditions very quickly, maybe because it was just settled and there was active disinterest in taking on the ones that were already here (hence, for example, children being Stolen from their families to ensure, among other things, that they had no contact with their customs and traditions).

It's funny that we didn't adopt Halloween - the posts about its Celtic heritage probably provide a bit of clue though given the active anti-Irish sentiment that prevailed here the last couple of centuries (until of course there were other people to be anti about, the Irish mob are just run of the mill now, but my 43 year old husband still claims he didn't meet a Protestant until he left school!).

So anything new is welcome in our view here at Chateau Young-Murphy (as we call it) as we raise kids that are part of the developing definition of what Australian culture is and means and therefore what "Australian" might mean, and as citizens of a globalised world, it's completely natural that they pick up on what goes on elsewhere, and that's a great thing in our view!

Yes it would seem that the trick or treating thing developed as we know it in the U.S., but hey so did Gay Pride, for example and that's an export the U.S. mob on the Board would also be rightly proud of!!

So ... as I said we won't be letting our kids run around the neighbourhood annoying other people unless it becomes a neighbourhood thing to do, that's my issue - but we will be learning everything we can about pumpkin making etc, from all of you with experience, and that to me, and the rest of my family, is the beauty of being part of an international community like this one!!!

Matilda

[Deleted]

matilda said:

Many cultures and traditions go on right here in the States and I for one welcome them as part of a growth and learning experience. Geez, if I told people "this isn't ......, now go away" I fear I would be living under a rock.

Don't go yet Barb - yahoo to you on this one. My thoughts, sentiments and views exactly, and I'll add:

Sorry for creating people not feeling nice (blood boiling etc).

In my view, and it's how we raise our kids, in Australia's very, very short modern history we've developed lots of customs and traditions very quickly, maybe because it was just settled and there was active disinterest in taking on the ones that were already here (hence, for example, children being Stolen from their families to ensure, among other things, that they had no contact with their customs and traditions).

It's funny that we didn't adopt Halloween - the posts about its Celtic heritage probably provide a bit of clue though given the active anti-Irish sentiment that prevailed here the last couple of centuries (until of course there were other people to be anti about, the Irish mob are just run of the mill now, but my 43 year old husband still claims he didn't meet a Protestant until he left school!).

So anything new is welcome in our view here at Chateau Young-Murphy (as we call it) as we raise kids that are part of the developing definition of what Australian culture is and means and therefore what "Australian" might mean, and as citizens of a globalised world, it's completely natural that they pick up on what goes on elsewhere, and that's a great thing in our view!

Yes it would seem that the trick or treating thing developed as we know it in the U.S., but hey so did Gay Pride, for example and that's an export the U.S. mob on the Board would also be rightly proud of!!

So ... as I said we won't be letting our kids run around the neighbourhood annoying other people unless it becomes a neighbourhood thing to do, that's my issue - but we will be learning everything we can about pumpkin making etc, from all of you with experience, and that to me, and the rest of my family, is the beauty of being part of an international community like this one!!!

Matilda[/quote]

This may be worthy of another thread, for I fear this thread has been hijacked, but I will say I, too, agree that this international community rocks. There's so much to learn from our friends across the pond, and right here in the States - different holidays, religious traditions and the like - that only brings the world that much closer. Take me for example - I live in a 90% Russian-Jewish community and I am now learning to sing three songs in Hebrew for our upcoming concert. Me! Born and raised Catholic (Latin and all) and I'm learning Hebrew! I LOVE that!

"It's a Small World After All...."

[matilda]

kasman said:

divinemrse said:

Well, posts like this one kind of boil my blood over, so I did a little research. Here is a link on the tradition of Trick or Treating you all my find interesting: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trick-or-treating

However, I should point out that:

"...The activity is popular in the United States, the United Kingdom, Ireland, Canada, and due to increased American cultural influence in recent years, imported through exposure to US television and other media, trick-or-treating has started to occur among children in many parts of Europe, and in the Saudi Aramco camps of Dhahran, Akaria compounds and Ras Tanura in Saudi Arabia. The most significant growth — and resistance — is in the United Kingdom, where the police have threatened to prosecute parents who allow their children to carry out the "trick" element. ..."

Many cultures and traditions go on right here in the States and I for one welcome them as part of a growth and learning experience. Geez, if I told people "this isn't ......, now go away" I fear I would be living under a rock.

Need I point out, this is Australia? We need to maintain a little of our individuality, and yes, I knew it started in England but out kids identify Halloween as more an American thing. Nowhere is Australia mentioned on that list of countries that celebrate Halloween.

No offence intended, but the fact is, Australia losing its identity with great rapidity and it just makes my blood boil.

OK you fullas, I'm going to start a thread called 'What is Australian identity?' and we can have fun there - anyone welcome!

Matilda

[inuvik]

krissie said:

I have a theory: it's not so much the trick or treating that's the problem, but that we (and I am using the term very loosely here to mean the British) don't have bedded in the customs surrounding the way the trick or treating visits should be conducted. What works well in the US doesn't seem to work very well here.

Your article was interesting because it seems that in England, trick or treating means giving money. Whereas in Canada, (and US I assume), trick or treating is for candy. And some bummer houses where you get healthy stuff!

Now, as far as I can understand, in the US and Canada, there are definite rules of etiquette that trick or treaters follow: porch light off, don't go to the house... and so on.

True, due to safety concerns for the kiddies primarily.

I should also point out that when I was a kid, very little emphasis was placed on hallowe'en because it was so close to Bonfire Night (5th November). That was always a much bigger deal here. (Still is a big deal, but...)

I thought Nov. 5 was Guy Fawkes Day? Has it changed its name? Now that is something I wish we had in Canada.

[krissie]

inuvik said:

Your article was interesting because it seems that in England, trick or treating means giving money. Whereas in Canada, (and US I assume), trick or treating is for candy. And some bummer houses where you get healthy stuff!

It's for sweets. I haven't come across anyone who gives out money here, so I'm not sure where the journalist got that idea from.

I will say, though, that my Canadian landlady used to give out five cent pieces with the candy. When you're little five cents is a lot of money!

I thought Nov. 5 was Guy Fawkes Day? Has it changed its name? Now that is something I wish we had in Canada.

You're right. I am talking about Guy Fawkes night, but I think colloquially more people would call it Bonfire Night these days. Still, one and the same thing.

(As an aside, I was in Edinburgh last night, and it was noisy! Lots of bangs from the fireworks all the way from about six in the evening until eleven.)

Krissie