Disabled leads -- too much for the viewer?

[maggiethecat]

I'm going to try to move the discussion that sprang to life in the "New Take on the Pilot" thread over here.

The question is: Is a disabled lead character too much for the average viewer to handle, and is that what doomed the ultimate success of Blind Justice?

Here we go . . .

[maggiethecat]

bjobsessed said:

inuvik said:

Wow, lots to respond to!

One final point--I don't think shows with disabled main characters are all that popular. Ironside was I believe, but Second Sight, Sue Thomas: FB Eye, Longstreet, all the ones I can think of--I don't think any of them lasted very long. And why is that? Are we scared of seeing disability, worried it could be us?

An interesting discussion point then: Was BJ doomed from the start then by having a disabled main character? (regardless of his professsion, regardless of the gun, etc.)

Sorry if this seems too jumbled--lots of thoughts came to me today reading this thread!

I've been thinking about this for a while but I'm still not sure if what I'm thinking is going to make a lot of sense. Here goes.

This is in no way a blanket statement but there are still a lot of people who think the disabled are unable to perform the same job as an able bodied person. As I mentioned before, I had a very difficult time finding a student teaching placement last year. The teacher I was finally placed with had 15 (no kidding), children. Most of them were adopted and many had a disability of some kind. In that way, he was able to look past the disability and see the potential in the person. I had to improvise for some things. It is difficult for me to write on the board. My writing looks like a kindergarten/grade one child on the board, but not on paper. The way I got around that was to type what I wanted to show the kids on an overhead. This teacher was quite willing to work with me and make adjustments or modifications where needed.

However, in all the rejections from other schools, I can guarentee that at least one was because they didn't want a disabled student teacher. Why is that? Part of it may be fear or ignorance. Did you know that if you're disabled, your brain doesn't work, you're automatically hard of hearing and must have gone to a special school. People think of you as courageous for doing what they do without thinking everyday. There are kids that need special schools or classes and I am in no way putting them down. But just because one part of your body doesn't work, doesn't mean you need a special school.

The writers of Blind Justice did their homework as evidenced by a few of Jim's comments in the pilot. "No one wants me here. I have to work twice as hard as everyone else." "All I want is a chance. If it turns out I can't do my job, then I'll leave." He knew it was going to be an uphill battle and he was prepared for it. Everyone, disabled or not, deserves a chance to prove whether they can do a job. Jim was no different.

I say all that to say that maybe a large part of the general public still needs to be educated on the abilities of the disabled and therefore are not willing to give these types of shows a fair chance. It is interesting that three of the shows you mentioned Inuvik, are based on characters in law enforcement. (I don't know about Second Sight.)

So fear about it being happening to them? I don't think so. I think it's just a lack of understanding. People can't imagine living like that. When Jim went to watch the game with the guys, and then asked where ? street was, (I lost the name of it), Tom and Marty both admired Jim for getting home on his own. Tom: Can you imagine? Marty: No. The look and that one word said a whole lot more than was ever spoken. I don't think either one of them could imagine themselves doing that. I've said it before, but you learn to adapt to your circumstances. I think both of them would have adapted just fine had they needed to--especially Marty. He was too much of a determined opinionated hothead. Someone would have figured out how to channel all that energy into adapting to a new life.

As for the reality of the show, I have a hard time understanding why that became such a big issue. Soap operas are anything but as are all the so called reality tv shows. For me, it takes more effort to believe some of what happens on these shows than it did for Blind Justice.

Feel free to agree or disagree, but that has been my experience where I live anyway. Don't get me wrong. Things are a lot better than they used to be but they could still be a lot better.

[maggiethecat]

greenbeing said:

bjobsessed said:

I've said it before, but you learn to adapt to your circumstances. I think both of them would have adapted just fine had they needed to--especially Marty. He was too much of a determined opinionated hothead. Someone would have figured out how to channel all that energy into adapting to a new life.

What a good point!

Makes you wonder what it would have been like if it had been Tom or Marty instead... Especially with all the parallels drawn between Marty and Jim before he was blind. Could put perspective on what Jim used to be like before he learned patience.

But you succinctly pegged Marty in this comment!

--GB

[maggiethecat]

maggiethecat said:

inuvik said:

One final point--I don't think shows with disabled main characters are all that popular. Ironside was I believe, but Second Sight, Sue Thomas: FB Eye, Longstreet, all the ones I can think of--I don't think any of them lasted very long. And why is that? Are we scared of seeing disability, worried it could be us? An interesting discussion point then: Was BJ doomed from the start then by having a disabled main character? (regardless of his professsion, regardless of the gun, etc.)

A lot to chew on! As to your last point, we should probably start a new thread for that discussion. Re the shows you mentioned, Second Sight was British and they seem to make the shows they want to, and stop (they're not much into long running series). Plus by the time they'd made three series, Clive Owen was off making movies. Ironsides played on Raymond Burr's popularity after years of Perry Mason (and not that honest a portrayal -- ever remember him hitting a sidewalk with no curb cut?!). I know people on the board are fond of Longstreet, but I remember it as not that well acted . . . .

Yeah, we need a new thread for this.

That said, was BJ doomed by having a disabled lead character? As I've said before, I think it was doomed by:
1. A ridiculously tough time slot
2. ABC wanted all their new showshows last season to match the ratings success of Desperate Housewives, Lost and Grey's Anatomy .
3. Little or no promotion after the rating began to slip

BJ earned solid mid-range ratings -- roughly what NYPDBlue did in its last few seasons. Shows with lower ratings were renewed. ABC wanted a mega-hit, and they didn't get one.

Now let's go back to Fisk and The Pilot!

[maggiethecat]

inuvik said:

bjobsessed said:

I say all that to say that maybe a large part of the general public still needs to be educated on the abilities of the disabled and therefore are not willing to give these types of shows a fair chance. It is interesting that three of the shows you mentioned Inuvik, are based on characters in law enforcement. (I don't know about Second Sight.)

So fear about it being happening to them? I don't think so. I think it's just a lack of understanding. People can't imagine living like that.

I thought of most of them being law-enforcement afterwards too. But I still think it holds true--Mr. Sunshine also didn't last (true, it was crap though). Other than Ironside, these are all deaf and blind characters too--I can't think of any shows were the MAIN character is disabled in other ways (except Ironside). Can anyone help me out there?

I agree bjobsessed, that people can't imagine living like that. But--why is that? Some of us are very curious, at least on this board. As in another thread--pretending to be blind, arm in a sling, etc. Why are others not?

I still think fear could be a reason. I for one cannot imagine being disabled. But I am interested in it, and hopefully am not ignorant about it to others. However, we avoid things we are scared of or make us uncomfortable. By not watching these shows, people don't have to think about the issue at all. Thinking about it would make them wonder what they would do if they were in that situation, and many people may not want to go there in their thoughts.

I agree Maggie, this deserves its own thread. If someone wants to move this please go ahead!

Isn't this the great thing about BJ--the specific can move us into more general discussions. What a truly great show.

[maggiethecat]

bjobsessed said:

maggiethecat said:

Now let's go back to Fisk and The Pilot!

Sorry Maggie. I seem to be a great contributor to throwing this thread off topic a bit, but for some reason all this is just a tiny bit of a passion for me. ;D

[inuvik]

Thank you for doing this Maggie!

One show I have thought of since my last post, with a disabled main character that is successful, is Monk. (How could I forget? One of my top 5 current show even!)

But, I did forget. And the reason is (drumroll please): he is not physically disabled. He has obsessive-compulsive disorder, for those who may not know the show. It is one of the things that makes him such a great detective.

I was originally thinking of physically disabled when I brought this all up for discussion.

[maggiethecat]

Indulge away, bjobsessed. ;D

Now we have a thread in which to chew over the fascinating question on the table. Was Jim's blindness too much for the average viewer?

Me? I'm not convinced. I think those viewers who were smart and open-minded (like all of us, of course), embraced the character as something new, something different, and something entirely persuasive. Refreshing, I would say. Not your average cardboard cop. Probably had a lot to do with the quality of the writing, acting, and directing.

Then again . . . I remember Carl said ages ago that, basically, the television viewing public couldn't "handle" disabled characters.

So here we go . . .

[Duchess of Lashes]

I know it's been mentioned before, but House is a successful drama, although if it were on one of the "big three" I'm not sure it's current viewership would be enough to sustain it either.

That said, I am not convinced that what killed Blind Justice was the fact that the lead character was "disabled". Blind Justice had huge viewership its first week - numbers that had they continued, would have guaranteed its renewal. But, each week those numbers dwindled and dropped off - 9 million less viewers by Episode Three.

There has been much said and written about the fact that people tuned in to see a cop show and didn't find what they were looking for. Blind Justice was too deep, too character driven, didn't possess enough of the criminal element, not enough realism, not at all like a "cop show" should be. The thinkers stayed, the fans from CSI, etc., who tuned in the first week, tuned back out again to their "crime" driven dramas.

The unbelievability factor of the NYPD giving a gun to a blind man probably weighed heavily on the final outcome also - Ron Eldard said it wouldn't fly - unfortunately he was right - and by the time the gun issue was finally "laid to rest" the audience numbers were already too far gone.

I wonder what would have happened if Blind Justice had been premiered in Grey's Anatomy's time slot and vice versa? Would we have a reversal of fortune?

[mlm828]

I think the disability factor cuts both ways. Some people watched Blind Justice because they were intrigued with the idea of a drama built around a disabled main character. Others didn't watch, because they were too uncomfortable watching a disabled main character, especially one who challenged their prejudices and stereotypes.

House is a little different, in my mind. Dr. House has a different type of disability, one that people might find less disconcerting than blindness, and his disability is not as central to the series as Jim's blindness was to Blind Justice.

Like Lori, I have often wondered what might have happened if Blind Justice had received the 10 p.m. Sunday time slot instead of Grey's Anatomy. However, I would change the question slightly and ask: what if it had been put in that time slot and promoted as what it really was, instead of another cop show?

[Eyphur]

longlashes said:

I wonder what would have happened if Blind Justice had been premiered in Grey's Anatomy's time slot and vice versa? Would we have a reversal of fortune?

I believe that the time slot may have been part of the problem. Perhaps the idea of putting Blind Justice in the slot recently vacated by NYPD Blue was to keep the fans of that show watching. I was not a regular viewer/ fan of NYPD Blue so I can't say for certain but I would expect that many of those who were fans would have been upset that their favorite show was ending and while perhaps giving it's replacement a shot feeling wholly dissatisfied because Blind Justice was not ( the same idea/ style/ whatever ) as NYPD Blue had been. I personally refused to watch the Jefferson's even to this day because Nick at Night put it in the Happy Days time slot. Happy Days was my favorite show at the time and I was not happy to suddenly have to record each episode a 5 am to watch my favorite show.

Now back to the topic at hand: Were people freaked out because the main character has a disability?

Quite frankly, I don't know. I know I was intrigued by the idea of a blind cop (ok,ok, homicide detective) when I first heard a advertisement on the radio, but if the show had sucked I would have probably changed the channel during the first episode I saw and not bothered to record every subsequent one. But after watching the episode I was like Ok this work and it's a pretty decent show, I'll keep watching. I've only watched one episode with another person and she didn't seem too concerned about watching a show about a blind guy (maybe because we were laughing too hard at "Smell me!"?).

Perhaps we could give Carl his own TV show to further study this phenomenon?

[carl1951]

Speaking of disabled characters, this should throw the thread off further:
Movies: Born on the Fourth of July.
Deerhunter
Coming Home.
What's the main theme...Vietnam War Vets. All coo-coo and physically disabled. Can't be one or the other. Now that's some stereotyping.

Just a passing comment. My counselor for the blind, who is blind, could not make our meeting today. Why?
his driver couldn't take the state car because of snow.
My counselor says. "See, if I still were able to see, I'd drive myself, one of the drawbacks to relying on someone else. My point concerning this: In order for Dunbar to do his job, he needed to wait for someone to take him to the various crime scenes. Couldn't just Pick-up-and-go. Another reality.

Why would an audience want to see "reality" concerning the disabled.

And, concerning Longstreet. Same said about it as Blind Justice..Not well acted. It was fairly close though in a day when any disability was treated as "Mental Retardation." Another stereotype that needed to abolished.


American audiences like Pretty, Handsome and Perfect and in that order.

Don't muck-it-up with something that takes that away.

The Fugitive had the one-armed man. Not a lead character. Not exactly the disability theme show, but he really did lose an arm in WWII..

Later, Carl

[maggiethecat]

carl1951 said:

Speaking of disabled characters, this should throw the thread off further:
Movies: Born on the Fourth of July.
Deerhunter
Coming Home.
What's the main theme...Vietnam War Vets. All coo-coo and physically disabled. Can't be one or the other. Now that's some stereotyping.

Not really thowing the thread off point at all, Carl, since it does reinforce the fact that Blind Justice was different in that the lead was disabled and not at all coo-coo!

But, yeah, I did get heartily fed up with Vietnam being character code in movies for nuts. Can anyone think of a major character in a major film or TV show who served in Vietnam, came home, and went on lead a productive life without flashbacks or fits of violence?! Hmmm. Well, Magnum P.I. comes to mind -- Magnum was pretty normal, and so were the supporting characters he'd served with. I remember thinking at the time that it was refreshing.

The American public doesn't always want its leads pretty and perfect. Case in point, Dennis Franz on NYPD Blue -- not exactly eye candy.

I tend to go with the theory that Blind Justice was doomed by ABC. Yes, they gave the show a chance to begin with, but when the ratings started to slide they really did just let it lie there like a lox. And trying to piggyback it on NYPD Blue's longstanding success -- simply because it was a Bochco-produced police drama -- was one element that doomed it. The two shows could not have been more different. Another problem was the 10:00 time slot, which is always hotly contested on any night, and the expectations are higher because the advertising in that hour costs more. There seems to be less pressure on the 9:00 slots (the ratings for Alias last winter weren't all that great, but it won renewal on the strength of its previous success).

I do remember when the show was axed, one of the smarter television pundits writing, in an article discussing cancellation decisions, that Blind Justice was a "solid mid-range success." So it really comes back to ABC.

[housemouse]

Let's keep going on Carl's point on disabled leads. I have believed for a long time that if you play disabled in a movie, you are destined for an Oscar. Some examples: Daniel Day Lewis in My Left Foot, Holly Hunter in The Piano, Al Pacino in Scent of a Woman, Dustin Hoffman in Rainman, Geoffrey Rush in Shine, Tom Hanks in Forest Gump and Philadelphia. The list goes on.

I think this goes back to Anita's point about the way folks perceive handicapped people. They tend to look at them as "courageous" and even while treating them as being less, may see them as somehow being "more." I am not sure if that makes sense, but I do think this attitude is not helpful to people facing physical challenges. These are people, who again, in Anita's insightful words, have "adapted to their circumstances" nothing more, nothing less. You play the hand you are dealt. There are people moving through their lives as rape or incest survivors, bi-polar, or manic depressives etc. Their "handicap" is not out there for the world to see, but they face issues every day, they are just different and don't provide as much dramatic fodder. As much as I love Monk, I don't think it is helpful for those who suffer with obsessive/compulsive disorder because of the way the show uses it as a dramatic, even comedic, tool.

Was the show doomed because of Jim's handicap? I don't think so, a handicapped lead didn't doom any of the movies listed. The show was doomed by ABC. They promoted it fiercely at first, unfortunately that did not promote it for what it was. All shows, whether great or awful live and die by the ratings. This show was great but was not given a chance to catch on, the ratings weren't there show the show is gone. Did it turn on the lead character, no I don't think so.

That turned into a rant, and got a little off topic, sorry.

[doobrah]

Doomed by the handicapped lead character? -- No.

Doomed by audience expectations in a Bochco time slort (typo, but I like it -- time SLORT!!) -- yeah, probably. While "NYPD Blue" was a testosterone-driven copfest always pushing the tough cop and the tough streets. With hard driving, percussive music. While viewership had dropped by the end, it was appointment television for what, 8 million? They gave "Blind Justice" a chance, but apart from the first minute and a half, it wasn't a good fit for those who had an "NYPD Blue" jones.

And like LL said: it was too character driven. I've read recently that American film distributors won't buy foreign films because Americans won't read or don't want to read subtitles. They want action, ACTION, ACTION!! (Side note: I just saw "The Sea Inside", a Brazilian movie [subtitles] about a quadriplegic who wants to commit suicide. Won the best foreign film Oscar last year, and it's really great. Very character driven.)

I'm just glad that the yanking of BJ after 12 episodes has not apparently tainted RE's career.

Remember, no one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public.