We Have a Date!

[krissie]

No, Shmeep isn't yanking your chain, Chris.

You won't be surprised to know that I've read the British versions of the Harry Potter books. I haven't seen the American ones, but I know that there are differences.

The Harry Potter Lexicon (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/books/differences.html) lists loads of differences. (Scroll down the page and follow the links for each of the books.

Translating books between British English and American English isn't unique to Harry Potter, though. I read about another book (chick lit, in this instance) where all references to 'the tube' and 'the underground' were replaced with references to 'the subway' for the American market -- because, of course, no American would think to look works up in the dictionary or google for meaning, let alone know anything about the London Underground aka The Tube. (Note the sarcasm here! All the Americans I've ever met are just as adept an using a dictionary as anyone else! )

Yes, there are differences between British and US English, but I find it insulting to assume that we can't understand each other. More than that, I think to have words changed can only be to the detriment of a story. Language is so important in helping to convey local colour and atmosphere. (But maybe that's just me.)

What next? Dubbing television shows? (Can you just imagine Jim Dunbar dubbed to sound like Hugh Grant? <shudder>)

Krissie

[inuvik]

krissie said:

Yes, there are differences between British and US English, but I find it insulting to assume that we can't understand each other. More than that, I think to have words changed can only be to the detriment of a story. Language is so important in helping to convey local colour and atmosphere. (But maybe that's just me.)

Karma, Krissie! Well said.

BTW, holds at the library are up to 266 now! (OK, I'll stop, but it fascinates me!)

[Chris]

krissie said:

No, Shmeep isn't yanking your chain, Chris.

I know she's not, but.... Two different versions??

krissie said:

Translating books between British English and American English isn't unique to Harry Potter, though. I read about another book (chick lit, in this instance) where all references to 'the tube' and 'the underground' were replaced with references to 'the subway' for the American market -- because, of course, no American would think to look works up in the dictionary or google for meaning, let alone know anything about the London Underground aka The Tube. (Note the sarcasm here! All the Americans I've ever met are just as adept an using a dictionary as anyone else! )

Yes, there are differences between British and US English, but I find it insulting to assume that we can't understand each other. More than that, I think to have words changed can only be to the detriment of a story. Language is so important in helping to convey local colour and atmosphere. (But maybe that's just me.)

Agreed!!!

krissie said:

What next? Dubbing television shows? (Can you just imagine Jim Dunbar dubbed to sound like Hugh Grant? <shudder>)

Krissie

Eeww, my ears are bleeding!!

- Chris

[shmeep]

krissie said:

Yes, there are differences between British and US English, but I find it insulting to assume that we can't understand each other. More than that, I think to have words changed can only be to the detriment of a story. Language is so important in helping to convey local colour and atmosphere. (But maybe that's just me.)

I completely agree with you. And we don't need a dictionary to figure out what the underground means. A lot of local color and atmosphere does make into even our version of the books. I love when Harry tells Ron he's not fussed or when Hagrid greets Harry with an "All right, Harry?" That would never happen in everyday American English, but I'm glad it was left there.

krissie said:

What next? Dubbing television shows? (Can you just imagine Jim Dunbar dubbed to sound like Hugh Grant? <shudder>)

This cracks me up! Funny you mentioned it because I swear to you that the other day I was cracking myself up imagining what it would be like if Blind Justice were dubbed into the accent of every English-speaking country that shows it. If that were the case, then Tom's "No, I'm Scottish. What do you think?" line would be even more hilarious.

[maggiethecat]

This whole discussion is making me smile . . . in fact, I'm dead chuffed.

I grew up reading so many English books that I used to get points off on papers for putting the "u" in honour and splendour and colour. I cut my reading teeth on Peter Rabbit and all of Beatrix Potter, of course, then on through Wind in the Willows and C. S. Lewis and Enid Blyton, then the Brontes and by the time I was in high school, devouring all of Dorothy L. Sayers and Agatha Christie; and now P. D. James and Reginald Hill and Peter Robinson and Caroline Graham and any good British mystery novelist I can get my hands on. Add in all those years of Masterpiece Theatre and Mystery! and Good Neighbors and To the Manor Born . . . I sometimes think I know more Brit slang than American. ;D

[mlm828]

I'm getting a chuckle out of this, too. I don't particularly object to Americanizing spellings of words such as "colour," but I agree the British terms should remain, because the books take place in the UK, and most of the characters are British. I don't know what has been changed for the American editions, but a lot of British terms are still in the books, such as "trainers" for "sneakers" or "pudding" for "dessert."

The Harry Potter Lexicon also has a glossary of British and American terms: www.hp-lexicon.org/help/strictly_british1.html

Edited to add the following quote from the lexicon page referenced above: "England and America are two countries separated by the same language." -- Oscar Wilde, "The Canterville Ghost"

[Chris]

krissie said:

Translating books between British English and American English isn't unique to Harry Potter, though. I read about another book (chick lit, in this instance) where all references to 'the tube' and 'the underground' were replaced with references to 'the subway' for the American market -- because, of course, no American would think to look works up in the dictionary or google for meaning, let alone know anything about the London Underground aka The Tube. (Note the sarcasm here! All the Americans I've ever met are just as adept an using a dictionary as anyone else! )

Yes, there are differences between British and US English, but I find it insulting to assume that we can't understand each other. More than that, I think to have words changed can only be to the detriment of a story. Language is so important in helping to convey local colour and atmosphere. (But maybe that's just me.)
Krissie

I'm still surprised by this. I never knew they would translate books between British and US English.

When they translate a book into Danish they usually keep the original names of the characters and places, unless it's a place that has a Danish name like The Statue of Liberty, which we refer to as Frihedsgudinden (The Goddess of Freedom) or Triumfbuen (L'Arc de Triumphe in Paris)

The Subway or The Underground would never be referred to as "S-Toget" which is The Underground in Copenhagen - which really is not *under ground* - but would be referred to as "Undergrundstoget"

As for Harry Potter many places and characters have their original English names but some have been translated into Danish, like the street where the Dursley's live and some of the various teacher's names.

- Chris

[krissie]

maggiethecat said:

This whole discussion is making me smile . . . in fact, I'm dead chuffed.

Oh! Good use of the word 'chuffed'!

maggiethecat said:

Add in all those years of Masterpiece Theatre and Mystery! and Good Neighbors and To the Manor Born . . . I sometimes think I know more Brit slang than American. ;D

Ironically, in light of the current conversation, 'Good Neighbors' was shown in the UK as 'The Good Life'. I gather the reason the title was changed for the North American market because the US had already had a show called 'The Good Life' and to duplicate would have been to confuse.

Krissie

[maggiethecat]

Oh, Krissie, do you know Good Neighbors, a.k.a. The Good Life? I never knew why they changed the title for the American market -- I just know that, as far as I am concerned, this was the best little comedy show ever, ever, ever. Could any cast have been more perfect than Richard Briers, Felicity Kendal, Penelope Keith, and Paul Eddington? I read somewhere that The Queen loved this show, which, I have to say, quite humanized the woman for me.

I know this is off point and quite the tangent, but I did get rather excited that someone else knows my beloved Margo and Jerry Ledbetter and Tom and Barbara Good.

[Katryna]

maggiethecat said:

I know this is off point and quite the tangent, but I did get rather excited that someone else knows my beloved Margo and Jerry Ledbetter and Tom and Barbara Good.

Yes, and what about Yes, Minister; or Rising Damp; or Fawlty Towers; or As Time Goes By; or Till Death Us Do Part?

I loved the Britcoms, of which these are only a few. But is anyone out there a Ballykissangel fan? Wouldn't an American version be great with a certain blonde dude in the role of Father Peter Clifford?

[Chris]

kathy said:

But is anyone out there a Ballykissangel fan? Wouldn't an American version be great with a certain blonde dude in the role of Father Peter Clifford?

Talk about being typecast!!!!

Now, as much as I like Britcoms, and I do, I will now drag you all back to Harry Potter (I am a bore, I know)

I read yesterday that they will set up a Hot-line for Harry Potter-fans because they expect them to be needing counseling since two characters will be killed off in the next book.

This makes me feel happy that this is going to be the last Harry Potter book ever.
I do like the books but it's getting too much, I think.
I can't decide whether the mentioning of such a hot-line will actually make readers think they might need it, or if it's the right thing to do?? There is such a media hype about HP that somehow the fact that they make such a big deal about it makes it a big deal, and possibly makes it a bigger deal than it really is, if you know what I mean?

I'm pretty sure though that I will not be needing counseling no matter who's going to die in "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows"
If I do, I will not call the hot-line but book an appointment with the very competent Dr. Galloway

Who is going to get killed off, you think?? I think Ron (no, no, not THAT Ron ) or Hermione will be one of them

- Chris

[krissie]

maggiethecat said:

Oh, Krissie, do you know Good Neighbors, a.k.a. The Good Life? I never knew why they changed the title for the American market -- I just know that, as far as I am concerned, this was the best little comedy show ever, ever, ever. Could any cast have been more perfect than Richard Briers, Felicity Kendal, Penelope Keith, and Paul Eddington? I read somewhere that The Queen loved this show, which, I have to say, quite humanized the woman for me.

I know this is off point and quite the tangent, but I did get rather excited that someone else knows my beloved Margo and Jerry Ledbetter and Tom and Barbara Good.

Ah, yes. I know The Good Life. And To The Manor Born. And Yes, Minister, which I am delighted to see is about to begin a run of repeats this week on one of the satellite channels... Plus, over the last few weeks, I've been rediscovering May To December and MASH (which obviously isn't one of ours).

As an aside, what was great about seeing MASH again was realising that it really is every bit as good as I remember it.

I never was much of a fan of Rising Damp, and I've gone off Fawlty Towers as I've got older... mostly because there are so few episodes and they are repeated over and over and over again. I don't think I ever really saw Till Death Us Do Part.

Now, if Still Game -- which is much more recent than any of the above -- turns up on North American television, I heartily recommend it. Very Scottish, and quite the best comedy currently on British television. In my very, very humble opinion.

Back to Harry Potter. Counselling? Counselling? Harry Potter is fiction! Are we seriously going to need counselling?

As for who is going to snuff it in the next book: I don't know, but I've a few ideas. I just hope that I don't find out for sure ahead of reading the book! (I was watching the television a few weeks before the sixth book came out and on the news it was announced who was going to die in that book. No spoiler warning. Nothing. I was furious! At least the news caster didn't let on as to how he died...)

Krissie

[janna]

chris said:

When they translate a book into Danish they usually keep the original names of the characters and places, unless it's a place that has a Danish name like The Statue of Liberty, which we refer to as Frihedsgudinden (The Goddess of Freedom) or Triumfbuen (L'Arc de Triumphe in Paris)

In Hungarian they don't keep the original names. I have red the sixth in English for first (the brittish one ) and it caused for me a racking my brain (is it understandable?) to figure out some character's and the schoolhouses's names. I have realized just after a few pages who is Snape In Hungarian he is Piton.

So the seventh will come in July. I have been wondering if it would come ever.