Week of March 15 - Four Feet Under

[mlm828]

Here is the thread for the re-watch of "Four Feet Under," where you can post your comments on the episode -- the good, the bad, and the ugly.

If you didn't have a chance to re-wach the Pilot last week, no problem. You can still join the party. Enjoy!

[bjobsessed]

I just finished watching this with Natascha. She asked me a question that I don't remember talking about. Do you think Mrs. Crider knows where Lloyd dumped the body?

It still amazes me that the guilty ones can act so indignant and upset although I would like to think that Mr. Crider was genuinely upset when Ben's body was found. A little bit of guilt and regret maybe.

[mlm828]

bjobsessed said:

I just finished watching this with Natascha. She asked me a question that I don't remember talking about. Do you think Mrs. Crider knows where Lloyd dumped the body?

It still amazes me that the guilty ones can act so indignant and upset although I would like to think that Mr. Crider was genuinely upset when Ben's body was found. A little bit of guilt and regret maybe.

Good questions. Mrs. Crider knows what happened, so she must know Lloyd disposed of poor Ben's body. I don't know if she knew where. My best guess is that he wouldn't want her to know and therefore wouldn't tell her.

This brings up another question: how did Lloyd move Ben's body to the park without being seen? They don't exactly live in a suburban house with an attached garage, where Lloyd could put Ben's body in the car without being seen and drive to the park. They may not own a car, and if they do it's not likely to be parked right in front of their building. And they live in Manhattan, where even in the middle of the night/early morning there's no guarantee the streets will be empty.

I do think Lloyd was remorseful and believed he didn't intend to kill Ben. When he saw Ben's body, the reality of what he had done may have hit him. It's possible he was putting on an act, but he (the character, that is) would have had to be a very good actor to pull it off.

Now for a few random thoughts on “the good, the bad, and the ugly” in “Four Feet Under”:

The Good: Jim and Jake Crider. Awwww.



Karen telling Marty to “get over it” when he accuses her of being Jim’s “bottom bitch,” then confronting Jim about his “bull in a china shop mentality” and telling him she doesn’t want to end up as “collateral damage” if he doesn’t stick around.



The Bad: The Dinner Party. I cringe when I watch this scene. Every. Single. Time. And not only at Clay's "fat Irish tongue." Jim, I know you’re under a lot of stress, with going back to work and that “I’m not the man I used to be” thing you’ve got going. But seriously, dude, you need to get a grip. Threatening to rip off your wife’s boss’s arm simply is not cool.



Hank being spooked and abandoning Jim when he gets knocked down by the bicycle messenger. As shmeep has pointed out, a real guide dog wouldn’t be spooked like that. And the editing of Jim after he’s knocked down doesn’t make any sense. One second he’s on the curb, then he’s back in the middle of the street. Maybe it was intended to show he was lost or confused, but it just seems like sloppy editing to me.



Jim “sniffing out” the burial place of the Criders’ dog. He did something similar in the Pilot, so it wasn’t a good idea, in my opinion, to have him do this in the very next episode.



The Ugly: The totally messed up timing of the first session with Dr. Galloway. Jim is ordered to see him at 5 p.m. that same day, but he doesn’t show up at the doctor’s office until the next day. Very bad move for a guy whose job security is basically nonexistent. When he finally gets there, some of the dialogue suggests the session is happening on Jim’s first day back on the job. This has bothered me every time I watch this episode. I realize that this scene may have been shot for the Pilot, originally, but what ever happened to attention to detail?



Karen's jacket with the weird buttons:

[Katryna]

bjobsessed said:

It still amazes me that the guilty ones can act so indignant and upset ...

Along these lines....When Jim and Karen first visit the Crider's, Mr. Crider questions it being Jim's case in a disparaging way. This implies that he is not comfortable with a blind detective trying to find his son. Actually, if he truly doubted Jim's ability, he was probably giving an inward sigh of relief!

[Katryna]

mlm828 said:

Hank being spooked and abandoning Jim when he gets knocked down by the bicycle messenger. As shmeep has pointed out, a real guide dog wouldn’t be spooked like that. And the editing of Jim after he’s knocked down doesn’t make any sense. One second he’s on the curb, then he’s back in the middle of the street. Maybe it was intended to show he was lost or confused, but it just seems like sloppy editing to me.

There is another example of sloppy editing in this episode, which has been pointed out before. Jim's buttons, for a brief time, switch from the right hand side of his Burberry (his right) where men's buttons belong...


To the left side (look just under the collar).

[doppelganger]

mlm828 said:

Jim “sniffing out” the burial place of the Criders’ dog. He did something similar in the Pilot, so it wasn’t a good idea, in my opinion, to have him do this in the very next episode.

Well, at least he heard the carrion flies first and then he smelled something... ;D

[rducasey]

kathy said:

Along these lines....When Jim and Karen first visit the Crider's, Mr. Crider questions it being Jim's case in a disparaging way. This implies that he is not comfortable with a blind detective trying to find his son. Actually, if he truly doubted Jim's ability, he was probably giving an inward sigh of relief!

I never thought of that Kathy, but you are right....He must have been thinking inside "What a stroke of luck!" so why doth he protest so much?

And the sloppy editing, yes, this episode seemed to be full of it. Perhaps they got a new editor after this episode since this is the worst one I think. However most of those things we caught came after multiple viewings.

It's funny how the same things strike you each time you watch, like Martha and the boss thing. I always cringe about him being left alone at the cocktail party.


It's rude of any wife to do that even to a sighted husband in a room full of strangers. And how magnanimous it was of him to say "This is fun". I guess he was trying to dismiss Christie's morning suggestion that perhaps "you're not ready for this".

I especially love the ability Ron has of showing so much in his body language with just subtle changes. The moment Clay says "and you I know like medium" or whatever, the slightest move of his head and facial change lets us know what he is thinking. It is such a small change but speaks volumes.

Marty's suggestion to him in the park when he says "i know what I would do" seems a bit out of character at this stage of the game for Marty. I would expect him to still be snarky and not that helpful yet.....

and speaking of being snarky......where was wardrobe and hair department in this one...That was truely Marty's worse outfit

and Karen's hair....yow...


. while Jimmy...perfecto. (I guess they all decided to work on the star, and who can blame them. )


OK Kathy, we are still officially the most superficial members of the board.....no real deep philosophical points from us. No wonder we get along so well. Are we almost at the chest hair survey episode.?....Ok...you win the award.

[maggiethecat]

Superficial? Not to someone who instigated the "Dressing the Dunbars" thread.

I really think the wardrobe and hair people had it in for Marisol Nichols on this one. Her hair looks rough and uncombed (much silkier and nicer in later episodes), and that jacket is not only weird but a size too small.

[inuvik]

kathy said:

There is another example of sloppy editing in this episode, which has been pointed out before. Jim's buttons, for a brief time, switch from the right hand side of his Burberry (his right) where men's buttons belong...


To the left side (look just under the collar).

I didn't notice that before either. But what does it mean--that the show had two coats? That seems unlikely. Maybe, for some reason, the same coat had two buttons on either side of the collar?

[rducasey]

inuvik said:

I didn't notice that before either. But what does it mean--that the show had two coats? That seems unlikely. Maybe, for some reason, the same coat had two buttons on either side of the collar?

No...it's not two different coats, as his scar jumps sides too, and the hair parts the opposite. It is just that the videotape was reversed. I think Kathy also found this to happen as well in a scene with Ted....

[bjobsessed]

And here I thought we couldn't possibly find anything else to talk about. I don't notice all these little tiny details so I love those that do. It's interesting.

[hoosier]

maggiethecat said:

Superficial? Not to someone who instigated the "Dressing the Dunbars" thread.

Hey, I noticed that the mugs in the opening scene were the same color as Jim's shirt...or so it seemed on my tv.

Lloyd Crider was not stupid. He killed Ben but was still coherent enough to dress him in street clothes and transport his body to the park, all without being seen, and he had his story down pat.


The dinner party--While Jim did over-react to Clay I think it was just the last straw in what had been a very long day. He had had to deal with falling down in public, with people doubting his ability (Russo, Crider, even Karen) plus get a dressing down from the boss because he hadn't been to see a shrink yet. After all that, he had to go to dinner in a strange place with people he had never met and be expected to make small talk only no one seemed interested in talking with him. That alone would make anyone on edge and then to be faced with Clay and his annoying affectation ("hydrate", "slurp") While Jim's comment would not be accepted in polite society, I could understand where he was coming from.

The aftermath of the party-- When Jim says "yes" to Christie's question of did he think she would go without him. The shock on his face when he realizes what he had blurted out, the shock and the surprise. How long had that been eating at him--his guilt over his affair, his fear that Christie would leave him or worse, have an affair in retaliation?

[Chris]

The scene at the Criders when Jim find the buried dog has always bothered me.

When they are inside, Karen makes some excuse about having cell service outside in order to get out of earshot of Mrs. Crider. Does theat mean that there are no cell service inside??? Why not?? This may have to do with me not knowing about the cell coverage in New York but it seems odd to me if you can't use a cell phone indoors there??

And then of course there is Jim smelling a dead dog:

mlm828 said:

Jim “sniffing out” the burial place of the Criders’ dog. He did something similar in the Pilot, so it wasn’t a good idea, in my opinion, to have him do this in the very next episode.

Not a very bright idea, I agree, super sense Jim...
One other thing... Did he really expect to find Ben there?? The boy disappeared the day before, there's no way he would be able to smell the body already. The dog is wrapped in plastic (which I know Jim didn't know, but still...) and buried in the ground. It would have to have been there for a few days for the decomposing be at a stage where there would be flies and for Jim to be able to smell it. So what was he thinking?? That Crider had killed some other child? Or what?
I'm not trying to defend Marty here, he's just being mean as usual, I think, but maybe that's what he was thinking and that's why he was upset about Jim wasting valuable time digging up a dead dog....

Then there's the infamous party.

rducasey said:

It's rude of any wife to do that even to a sighted husband in a room full of strangers.

And even more rude of the other guests. So selfabsorbed that they don't pay any attention to the good looking Blonde, let alone talk to him. What's wrong with these people, you can't just leave someone standing alone in the middle of the room and just ignore them.

rducasey said:

And how magnanimous it was of him to say "This is fun". I guess he was trying to dismiss Christie's morning suggestion that perhaps "you're not ready for this".

You can tell from Christie's reaction that she knows he's lying, he's not having any fun at all.

rducasey said:

I especially love the ability Ron has of showing so much in his body language with just subtle changes. The moment Clay says "and you I know like medium" or whatever, the slightest move of his head and facial change lets us know what he is thinking. It is such a small change but speaks volumes.

A perfect example of the phrase "Less is more"

- Chris

[inuvik]

chris said:

When they are inside, Karen makes some excuse about having cell service outside in order to get out of earshot of Mrs. Crider. Does theat mean that there are no cell service inside??? Why not?? This may have to do with me not knowing about the cell coverage in New York but it seems odd to me if you can't use a cell phone indoors there??

I'm sure it is just an excuse. But, in my building, which is brick and concrete (theirs is brick so may be concrete too), you can't use cell phones indoors. Everyone has to go on their balconies to use them, so you never know--maybe it was the truth.

[Chris]

inuvik said:

I'm sure it is just an excuse. But, in my building, which is brick and concrete (theirs is brick so may be concrete too), you can't use cell phones indoors. Everyone has to go on their balconies to use them, so you never know--maybe it was the truth.

Oh, yes, it's an excuse but it still made me wonder. I'm used to be able to use my cell almost everywhere. Then again, New York has lots of tall buildings maybe that would interfere and weaken the signals. Not a problem here, more than 15 floors and it's considered a very tall building

- Chris