Narnia

[shmeep]

Jun 3, 2008 16:09:10 GMT -5 maggiethecat said:

Brava to anyone who takes Narnia as seriously as I do.

I think we can lay my impressions solely at the feet of Pauline Baynes, the illustrator, as I spent as much time staring at her beautifully effective pen & ink illustrations as I did reading and rereading the books. And from the an illustrator's POV, drawing people with dark hair gives them a definition on the page that blond hair (very few lines) does not. So this may have been an artist's choice that stuck in my head.

Which [ahem] is why, although I adore Tilda Swinton, she was never, never, never, never my (or C. S. Lewis's) idea of Jadis the White Witch. Francesca Annis got it dead right in the old BBC TV version: icy white skin, ink-black hair, and white furs -- a cruel beauty, and wonderfully seductive in a way that Tilda Swinton was not. (Eat your Turkish Taffy, lady? Hell, no - you're very creepy and why do you have no eyelashes?) Half the time Tilda Swinton looked like she'd escaped from one of Wagner's more lurid operas.

I understand she makes something of a cameo appearance in "Prince Caspian" -- is this where Dr. Cornelius is telling Caspian the history of Narnia? Please tell me they kept Dr. Cornelius!

And yeah, the Calormen peoples are really thinly disguised bad Arabs; C. S. Lewis was definitely a product of his generation, with all the prejudices and ingrained stereotypes that implies. And you also have to ignore the whole sexism/girls can't fight aspect, or the fact that once you hit puberty your trips to Narnia end.

PS. If I started a Narnia thread, would it just be the two of us?

Bless you, you read my mind. Even if it is just the two of us, we'll have fun, right? But I'm sure there are more Narnia fans over here.

I agree with you about Tilda Swinton. I thought it was an interesting interpretation of the character, but she didn't look at all as I imagined. I did like that Tilda made the decision to make the character extra creepy by speaking with a calmness that ends up being threatening, but...she's not as I imagined. I didn't really like the White Witch (or anyone else) in the BBC Narnia movie from the 80's either, though. I remember particularly disliking Lucy.

Dr. Cornelius is in the movie, but not in a huge role. We never get to see Caspian as a child. He's already in his twenties and his past is more inferred than anything else so that might be a disappointment to you, but I understand how difficult it would have been to fill in all that background.

I agree that C.S. Lewis was a product of his time. His prejudice against Arab culture was blatant, as was his preference for many of the more--ahem!--blond cultures. Is there a "blond" culture? Hee hee. Anyway...his comments about women wouldn't fly today so I'm glad they were omitted from the movies.

I think the next movie will be very enjoyable because this is a much more leisurely Narnia trip than the first two. We'll really get to see the interaction of the characters and it'll be fun seeing Eustace trapped on a ship in the middle of nowhere, begging for the British Consulate and having to show respect to a talking mouse. It wasn't my favorite book the first time through, but it's grown on me over the years and now I'm really looking forward to the movie version.

Here's my concern: if the first three movies aren't as successful as the Powers That Be wish, they may not make the rest and that would be a real shame. The first did very well, but the second was only number one for one week and it didn't bring in all that much--although it will surely catch up in the DVD and foreign markets. I really want to see The Horse and his Boy and The Silver Chair. Really, I can't think of one I wouldn't want to see made as a movie.

[mlm828]

I remember seeing part or all of the BBC version and liking it very much. After seeing it, I always meant to read the books but never got around to it. So you have inspired me!

I went over to amazon.com and found a reasonably priced boxed paperback set including: The Magician's Nephew, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, The Horse and His Boy, Prince Caspian, The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, The Silver Chair, and The Last Battle. Is this the complete series? If not, what other titles are needed to complete the series?

[maggiethecat]

mlm, that is indeed the complete series, and apparently arranged in order chronologically and not as they were published. C. S. Lewis always wanted everyone to read The Magician's Nephew first, but I loved the idea of reading the first few books and then having the thrill of discovering how the lamppost came to be in Lantern Waste, and how Jadis was let loose on the world. And also the lovely way in which he tied Digory and Polly to the present, and I won't say more lest I be a spoiler.

Oh, Shmeep, I am so-o-o-o-o looking forward to The Voyage of ther Dawn Treader, and just mentioning it makes me want to pull it off the shelf and reread it tonight. (Which would be a lot more enjoyable than the AWFUL Patricia Cornwall piece of dreck I'm going though at the speed of light with a wet finger. WHY does she wind up on the bestseller list? She is a terrible writer.) And don't you just know that with today's special effects, Eustace's experience on Dragon Island will be wonderful! Maybe my favorite bit is the first line of the book, which I still remember because it cracked me up as a kid and still does:

There was a boy called Eustace Clarence Scrubb, and he almost deserved it.

Ahem. Where was I? Oh. Yeah. Shmeep, I will have to respond more fully to your most excellent post when I have a little more time. (Round two of sleepover company arriving on Thursday, and I'm cleaning house tonight so I can work tomorow).

As for the BBC TV version of TLTWATW, Francesca Annis as Jadis was about the only thing I liked about it. She was splendid and just right but I agree with your assessment of the poor bucktoothed child who played Lucy -- an example of British dentistry (now, there's an oxymoron) at its worst.

Loving this thread!

[shmeep]

Jun 3, 2008 18:44:05 GMT -5 mlm828 said:

I remember seeing part or all of the BBC version and liking it very much. After seeing it, I always meant to read the books but never got around to it. So you have inspired me!

I went over to amazon.com and found a reasonably priced boxed paperback set including: The Magician's Nephew, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, The Horse and His Boy, Prince Caspian, The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, The Silver Chair, and The Last Battle. Is this the complete series? If not, what other titles are needed to complete the series?

This is the complete set, but I see it's been published in the revised order, which I detest. Recent publishings have reorganized them into chronological order, but I much prefer to read them in the order in which they were written because it's just the right thing to do. I can't even tell you how little I would care about The Magician's Nephew, about the beginning of Narnia, had I not spent five books knowing and loving Narnia first. The new order is just...stupid! There. I feel better.

This is the way they must be read:

The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe
Prince Caspian
The Voyage of the Dawn Treader
The Silver Chair
The Horse and his Boy
The Magician's Nephew
The Last Battle

Good luck and let me know how you like them! You could easily read them all in a few days. They're very short, considering how much is in them.

[mlm828]

Thanks, shmeep and mags! I was confused about whether the set was complete, because amazon wanted me to order something else to go with it, and I didn't want to spend money to get something I didn't need or want. Shmeep, I will definitely follow your advice to read the books in the order in which they were written. Off to amazon . . . .

[shmeep]

Jun 3, 2008 20:32:50 GMT -5 mlm828 said:

Thanks, shmeep and mags!

Heh. I didn't even notice Mags had answered before me until this. I'm glad I went back and found it. Mags, funny we both commented on the revised order. I don't care if he wished for them to be read in that order. It's just not fun that way. I tried it once and found it not nearly as interesting. The introduction of Aslan alone makes the TLtWatW a must for the first. I remember the feeling of wonder I felt when my fourth grade teacher read it to us. Whenever his name was mentioned, I nearly went crazy trying to figure out who (or what) he was and why he was special. I think we're supposed to meet him just as Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy do.

I'm not currently reading the books, though. I tend to read them once every year or so (and have since I was ten). They never grow old. Right now I'm going through a Kipling phase, though. I just re-read The Light That Failed, about an artist who is trying to paint his masterpiece before going blind. I didn't like it much fifteen years ago. Five years ago, I thought it was okay. This time, I thought it was brilliant and couldn't believe I had ever thought otherwise. Now I'm in such a Kipling mood that I'm giving The Jungle Books another chance (never got through them) and am planning to look into some of his other work.

[maggiethecat]

I'll have more to say about Narnia but . . . aaaaaah, The Light That Failed. It's been years since I read the book, but have you ever seen the old movie of same? Ronald Colman plays the artist, Ida Lupino the witchy guttersnipe model who has at the painting. It's definitely a three-hanky weeper.

Back to Narnia for a moment. How much do I love that C. S. Lewis referenced E. Nesbit and the Bastables in the opening of The Magician's Nephew? I recently got my battered old Bastables trilogy down from a top shelf and reread them: The Wouldbegoods, The Treasure Seekers, and The New Treasure Seekers. Delicious!!! Then, of course, I had to reread The Railway Children, and if you can read the last two pages of that book without the tears springing unbidden to your eyes then I don't want to know you. Do you know that book? You would love it. E. Nesbit was a wonderful writer, especially considering that she had to write to support her family, since her husband, Hubert Bland, spent his days lying on the sofa spouting Fabian Socialism. She was a favorite of C. S. Lewis's, and the seminal influence of his childhood. And she's funny.

Love Kipling. Love the lines from the musical Me and My Gal:

Toff: Do you like Kipling?
Cockney Hero: I dunno -- I've never kippled.

Heh. ;D

MODIFIED TO ADD:
I just noticed this:

Jun 3, 2008 19:50:39 GMT -5 shmeep said:

This is the complete set, but I see it's been published in the revised order, which I detest. Recent publishings have reorganized them into chronological order, but I much prefer to read them in the order in which they were written because it's just the right thing to do. I can't even tell you how little I would care about The Magician's Nephew, about the beginning of Narnia, had I not spent five books knowing and loving Narnia first. The new order is just...stupid! There. I feel better.

This is the way they must be read:

The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe
Prince Caspian
The Voyage of the Dawn Treader
The Silver Chair
The Horse and his Boy
The Magician's Nephew
The Last Battle

Amen, amen, amen, and you are so-o-o-o-o-o right. The Magician's Nephew would mean sod all had I not spent five books walking around Narnia and coming to love it -- and how excited I was to read The Horse's Boy for the glimpses it gave me of the Pevensies during The Golden Age:
When Adam's flesh and Adam's bone
Sit upon Cair Paravel's throne
The evil time will be over and done.
Words that will mean far more to mlm when she's finished the set. What I wouldn't give to read those book again for the first time. Mlm, I envy you that pleasure!

PS I still have a problem with The Last Battle. I hated it when I was ten and the years have only cemented my opinion. It's a bitter and very sad book -- despite the spiritually uplifting ending -- and I still say it was a very cruel trick to play on impressionable children who had fallen in love with Narnia. (I spent half my childhood banging on the back of closets trying to see if I could get through. ) It's a very adult book, actually, and seems different from the rest of the series. And talk about Lewis as a misogynist! "My sister is no longer a friend of Narnia," Peter says coldly of Susan: damned to a lonely life without her siblings simply because she'd become interested in boys and parties and lipstick. This, presumably, made her a stench in the nostrils of the righteous.

Heh.

MODIFIED AGAIN, AFTER REREADING SHMEEP'S POST:
I can remember as if it were yesterday, the thrill of walking into the Parkway School library -- I was in fourth grade -- to return The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, and finding out from the dear librarian that there were six more books about Narnia. I really think it was one of the sweetest moments of my life.

[maggiethecat]

Narnia, I have found, is perfect reading for a heat wave, which we've been dead smack in the middle of since Thursday.

I just finished The Voyage of the Dawn Treader for about the umpteenth time, and now I'm midway through The Horse and His Boy. I'll have more to say about both books when I have more time, but one detail that struck me this time through was the wine. Narnia is essentially Medieval and the banquets are a lovely combination of Medieval and modern food . . . and those little children drink like wine. The minute Edmund and Lucy and Eustace arrive, wet and cold, on the deck of the Dawn Treader, Caspian has them brought cups of steaming hot spiced wine. When, in The Horse and His Boy, Shasta falls in with the Narnians in Tashbaan, the city of the Tisroc (May he live forever), he is brought a tray of lovely food that includes "a silver flagon of the sort of wine which is called white but is really yellow." No wonder he fell asleep.

It's all part and parcel of the rich texture of the books, and makes me very glad they were published in the 1950s. No prissy politically correct children's book editor (or publisher) would let that sort of thing stand today.