ASL

[shmeep]

I know this is random, but that's what this board is all about. Does anyone else have an interest in having a place to discuss Sign Language, Deaf Culture, Interpreting, etc.?? Or does anyone have any questions about any of that in general, even if you don't know the language?

[montrealslp]

Yeah Shmeep! An ASL thread...how cool! I'm currently stressing over the notion that I will lose my already very limited signing skills over the summer. Finished taking level 102 in June and I'll embark on level 103 in September.... if I can still sign anything beyond "hello...nice to meet you."

Oh! That reminds me.... I once met my ASL professor's boss and I signed "hello, nice to meet you." Well, "meet" is signed by bringing together both hands with the index fingers extended. Well, I kinda did that...but my other fingers were sort of forming these egg shapes which meant that I signed "Nice to date you" !! LOL... sheesh....I only learned of that mistake months later when my teacher showed me the sign for "date" and I realized I'd been doing that sign for "meet" all along! And that boss.... she ended up being my boss too for a month while I did an internship at a school for the Deaf. I don't think she held my mistake against me! Thank goodness!

So, yeah...ASL rocks!

Remind me some time to tell you about the time I tried to sign while walking down the street.

-Myra

[kytdunne]

I'd be interested in lurking and asking questions anytime something triggers one.

I took ASL briefly, but my partner dropped out and it was nearly impossible to figure out how to even practice, so I ultimately gave up. I ended up learning braille transcription a year later.

Do recall the instructor commenting on watching out for the problem encountered when two people are talking and one person is looking at the mouth, and the other looking at eyes (someone else know how to explain this?). And then I had to force myself to stop doing that very thing a few days later while talking to her. Sure felt silly.

Kyt

[shmeep]

kytdunne said:

I ultimately gave up. I ended up learning braille transcription a year later.

How funny! I went to my college counselor asking her how I could go about becoming an Orientation and Mobility instructor and she had never been asked that and had no idea what to tell me so I decided it would be easier to just go into interpreting instead, since I lived near two very accessible colleges that provided excellent instruction.

Do recall the instructor commenting on watching out for the problem encountered when two people are talking and one person is looking at the mouth, and the other looking at eyes (someone else know how to explain this?).

There's always the temptation, while first learning to sign, to try and lipread the signer. I don't recall experiencing this myself, but it may be because my instructor didn't mouth the words. She taught in real ASL so I was forced to learn the signs.

I used to interpret for this creepy guy who claimed to be Amish with no birth certificate who was Deaf and raised by African doctors. He also claimed to be of high school age, but sure didn't look it. I think none of it was true and that he was even feigning deafness. Too many things didn't add up, particularly the way he watched my hands as I interpreted instead of looking me in the eye. Deaf people just don't do that. To this day, I don't know what was really going on with that guy, but he sure creeped me out. Not as bad as the little perve I got a couple of years later who stared at my chest, stalked cheerleaders, and sat with a pen dangling from his nostril as I attempted to interpret for him. Now that was a creepy kid. But at least he wasn't lying about anything. Ah, high school. How I miss it.

[kytdunne]

admin said:

How funny! I went to my college counselor asking her how I could go about becoming an Orientation and Mobility instructor and she had never been asked that and had no idea what to tell me so I decided it would be easier to just go into interpreting instead, since I lived near two very accessible colleges that provided excellent instruction.

I strongly considered rehab therapy and O&M, too. Ended up just dabbling in ASL & braille.

Kyt: Do recall the instructor commenting on watching out for the problem encountered when two people are talking and one person is looking at the mouth, and the other looking at eyes (someone else know how to explain this?).

There's always the temptation, while first learning to sign, to try and lipread the signer. I don't recall experiencing this myself, but it may be because my instructor didn't mouth the words. She taught in real ASL so I was forced to learn the signs.

I hadn't thought of this one, but yeah, I can see where that could be a common problem, too.

Let me try explaining the variation I did:

Picture Nick and his little chat with Dunbar in the morning at the cafe. Dunbar's looking down, Nick seems to sink to make eye contact.

Now make Dunbar sighted, but deaf, so he's reading Nick's lips. Nick sinks to make eye contact. In response, Dunbar sinks to read lips. In response, Nick sinks again. Repeat.

When standing, this seems to turn into something like those little Dutch Kids figurines where the boy and girl are bent at the waist and kissing.

Not that extreme, but it does feel silly. Looks dumb, too.

My instructor cracked us up, though. When she was demonstrating this, she bent just so far, then mimed putting a palm against the other (non-existent for the demo) person's forehead and pushing until they were both standing straight again.

I used to interpret for this creepy guy who claimed to be Amish with no birth certificate who was Deaf and raised by African doctors. He also claimed to be of high school age, but sure didn't look it. I think none of it was true and that he was even feigning deafness. Too many things didn't add up, particularly the way he watched my hands as I interpreted instead of looking me in the eye. Deaf people just don't do that.

They don't? I've run into those who watch the hands, realize I'm just one of those aimless hand-gestures people, and go back to lip reading. My instructor read signing first, but that may be only because she was checking for ability, but lipreading wasn't always her strong suit, either. But she didn't make eye-contact except when she was speaking.

To this day, I don't know what was really going on with that guy, but he sure creeped me out.

I can see why!

Not as bad as the little perve I got a couple of years later who stared at my chest, stalked cheerleaders, and sat with a pen dangling from his nostril as I attempted to interpret for him. Now that was a creepy kid. But at least he wasn't lying about anything. Ah, high school. How I miss it.

What's the stance for interpreters who are dealing with a real jerk? Suck it up and sign?

Kyt

[shmeep]

kytdunne said:

Now make Dunbar sighted, but deaf, so he's reading Nick's lips. Nick sinks to make eye contact. In response, Dunbar sinks to read lips. In response, Nick sinks again. Repeat.
My instructor cracked us up, though. When she was demonstrating this, she bent just so far, then mimed putting a palm against the other (non-existent for the demo) person's forehead and pushing until they were both standing straight again.

Wow. I'm trying to picture this, but after ten years in the Deaf Community and almost seven years interpreting, I've never once seen this happen. Even when lip-reading, Deaf people tend to have intense eye-contact and to lip-read peripherally. They get information from far more than the lips. Eyes tell them if they're being asked a question or being given instructions, for example. At least this has been my experience, but this could be because I'm signing so they aren't struggling to lip-read me. I watch my husband lip-reading hearing people all the time and he never looks at the lips. It's always eye-to-eye to get the connection and he can still see the lips at the same time. People in my family now realize that the eye contact is the most important thing with him because they get clues back from him about how well they are communicating. They know from his eyes if they need to re-word a sentence in order to make it easier to understand on the lips.

And this just seems odd to me:

But she didn't make eye-contact except when she was speaking.

Wha??

That is unusual! Wow. Except for that one fake Deaf guy, I've never seen one stare at the hands and I don't do that myself (and ASL is my language at home). One thing I learned in my Interpreter Training Program is that Deaf people are known for intense eye contact (as I already said) and I'm always aware of this, whether I'm having a casual conversation or interpreting a meeting. I really don't understand what the deal is with your instructor. I do know that a lot of ASL classes are taught by people who may not be the best role model for the language or who have not had training in how to teach ASL. I'm not saying this is the case here, but I've seen it happen. At the high school where I used to interpret, one of the ASL teachers got the job because she was Deaf and a good signer, but she had no clue of how to pass the skill on to others. I was her voice interpreter for three hours a day and it was all I could do to not jump in and teach the class myself because she was making a terrible mess of it. Very frustrating. Again, your instructor may have been great, but from the little you told me, the info sounds plain odd to me.

What's the stance for interpreters who are dealing with a real jerk? Suck it up and sign?

Oh, we interpreters have to put up with quite a lot. I used to voice interpret for a Deaf math teacher who was a real bastard. The students hated and feared him and I ended up having to yell a lot to match his register. It was actually kind of fun because it is the opposite of my normal personality. I felt like an actress. If a Deaf person is really unbearable, I don't have to stay in that situation. It's okay to remove myself, just as it's okay for the Deaf consumer to remove me.

Where I work now, three of my Deaf consumers are delights to work with and the other two are a challenge. They're nice enough to me, but one is almost impossible to understand and the other is rambly and fast and impatient so I often struggle with both of them. I just do my best because I know no one else could come in and magically do a better job. These people are just a bit difficult so I have to suck it up and deal. The signing part is easy, but the voicing...that can be the issue in these situations.

[shmeep]

Update.

Today I decided to test my husband to see if I did, indeed, know what I was talking about. While we were having lunch, I started to watch his hands as he was talking just to see what he would do. It was hilarious! He stopped in mid sentence, looking around wildly, convinced that I had just spotted something of interest and he wanted to know what it was. Of course this cracked me up and I had to explain what I was doing. He said it throws him when people aren't maintaining eye contact with him and that hearing people always seem to look really distracted when he's talking to them (non signers, of course). I'm sure there are exceptions to this, as with everything. About looking at the mouth, when you're a few feet away from the other person and taking in the face in general, it's hard to tell if the other person occasionally glances at the lips in order to understand. I guess I do that sometimes, but I mostly sign while maintaining eye contact. It was fun to test it out today because I never gave it all that much thought before.

[awlrite4now]

There's a Deaf guy that works the counter in the post office I use here in town. I get amused standing in line watching people interact with him, because he does not speak but occasionally comes out with the odd sound and it seems to unnerve some people. He always has a writing pad handy, and as I don't sign (wish I did) I often get the brunt of his jokes. Jerry is a riot. I once was going to send something air post to the UK and he makes this wing motion like a plane. Has me in stitches every time I go in. Another time he gives me the total for my purchase, then writes "Add a dollar tip?"

Today I was running late, the last customer of the day, and when I finished, I wrote "Miller Time" on the pad and left him cracking up.

Alice

[jillaw]

I have found that shmeep is much better at real ASL than fake. I still don't know what the sign for pizza is, but it can't be what she tried to use that one time in Westwood.

I have weird friends.

[shmeep]

Nice Avatar, Jillaw!

Okay, so we used to go around pretending to be Deaf. Well, I was and Jillaw would interpret. One time a nice UCLA guy was smitten with me and tried to figure out how to contact me so he called Jillaw and got her mom, who was really puzzled when she was told that I was Deaf.

And Jillaw, my sign for pizza was way better than your sign for "so," which turned into you pantomiming a person sewing. Dreadful, but entertaining.

Weird friends? I don't know what you mean.

[jillaw]

OK, I admit my signing skills have left a bit to be desired.

My favorite was the time those boys in line behind us a Magic Mountain were discussing how cute you were, thinking you couldn't hear them.

[shmeep]

jillaw said:

OK, I admit my signing skills have left a bit to be desired.

My favorite was the time those boys in line behind us a Magic Mountain were discussing how cute you were, thinking you couldn't hear them.

Makes me miss high school.

[verorl]

You two must have had a lot of fun!

[jillaw]

verorl said:

You two must have had a lot of fun!

I think a more accurate statement might be, "You two are huge dorks!"

But we did have fun, and did until shmeep moved across the country presumably to get away from her friends. Now she can sign correctly in peace, practice her make-up applying in the dark in peace, and have her Barbies care for the handicapped (ie. broken-legged) dolls without harassment. Oh, wait. I think I'm just harassing her on-line. Oh, well. Shmeep may be really, really weird, but she's the best friend in the world.

[montrealslp]

Handicapped Barbies!!! LOL! I used to laugh so hard at my kids (I have 2 girls)....They pretended their legless Kens were war vets!!! ;D

-Myra (bjfan on the other boards)