Four Feet Under

[kytdunne]

maggiethecat said:

Yesterday at 3:25pm, awlrite4now wrote:
This being the blooper reel thread, I don't quite think I understand why you believe Jim explaining seeing a color to the boy constitutes a mistake.

You're right: it's not a mistake. The brain tries to compensate for a lack of visual feed and will sometimes provide a color. The color can change or just fade, whatever. It's all individualistic, but it's not unusual.

maggiethecat said:

Yesterday at 3:25pm, awlrite4now wrote:
(I felt like it was a botched attempt to imitate the way Matt Murdock perceived space in Daredevil, and was glad they didn't continue to use that throughout the series.)

I don't think Daredevil had any bearing on Blind Justice, particularly since DD's skills are so unique (and far beyond Dunbar's). The visual effects were an attempt to provide a sight-oriented audience with an understanding of how a blind cop could make it through a crime scene, respond to a threat, etc. I don't think it was a particularly good idea and preferred that they dropped it, but it was interesting while it lasted. But in the end, it's always an odd game to use one sense to describe another sense (and often seems destined to fail with a large portion of the audience).

Kyt

[awlrite4now]

kytdunne said:

maggiethecat said:

maggiethecat said:

Yesterday at 3:25pm, awlrite4now wrote:
(I felt like it was a botched attempt to imitate the way Matt Murdock perceived space in Daredevil, and was glad they didn't continue to use that throughout the series.)

I don't think Daredevil had any bearing on Blind Justice, particularly since DD's skills are so unique (and far beyond Dunbar's). The visual effects were an attempt to provide a sight-oriented audience with an understanding of how a blind cop could make it through a crime scene, respond to a threat, etc. I don't think it was a particularly good idea and preferred that they dropped it, but it was interesting while it lasted. But in the end, it's always an odd game to use one sense to describe another sense (and often seems destined to fail with a large portion of the audience).

Kyt

Very true. A lot of people didn't like the way Daredevil's perception was portrayed in the movie either, because they thought it used too much dependence on hearing. I liked the depiction, myself, because DD does use a type of echolocation for discerning his surroundings. If you saw the Matrix sequel where the character's blinded POV was in red, that is another example of trying to depict perception. Touchy game at best.

[maggiethecat]

awlrite4now said:

A lot of people didn't like the way Daredevil's perception was portrayed in the movie either, because they thought it used too much dependence on hearing. I liked the depiction, myself, because DD does use a type of echolocation for discerning his surroundings. If you saw the Matrix sequel where the character's blinded POV was in red, that is another example of trying to depict perception. Touchy game at best.

And I, personally, liked the fact that Blind Justice quickly eschewed any sort of quirky special effects, and concentrated on a simple reality wherein we knew Dunbar was neither sighted nor endowed with any kind of ridiculous "power." He was flawed and human, and that was what made the character so eternally engaging.

At least to me.

[kytdunne]

awlrite4now said:

A lot of people didn't like the way Daredevil's perception was portrayed in the movie either, because they thought it used too much dependence on hearing. I liked the depiction, myself, because DD does use a type of echolocation for discerning his surroundings. If you saw the Matrix sequel where the character's blinded POV was in red, that is another example of trying to depict perception. Touchy game at best.

To stay off subject for a moment:

Since there will always be variations on interpretation due to the nature of any character written by multiple authors over the span of decades, it will never be possible to please all the fanboys (it takes a fanboy to be that detail-specific).

If a character has unique abilities, it makes sense to enlighten the audience in some manner and both DD & Neo fit that. Of course, so did the Six Million Dollar Man & Bionic Woman (but it's nice to get past the close-ups of the eye and ear).

maggiethecat said:

And I, personally, liked the fact that Blind Justice quickly eschewed any sort of quirky special effects, and concentrated on a simple reality wherein we knew Dunbar was neither sighted nor endowed with any kind of ridiculous "power." He was flawed and human, and that was what made the character so eternally engaging.

Having found many super-human characters that are eternally engaging and many flawed and human characters who are not, I'd say it was the unique combination of character traits that determines the appeal.

(Offhand, I can't think of a single character at any level of capability, who is not flawed in one manner or another).

Kyt

[hoosier]

I personally think the scene in the park is one of the most powerful ones in the series. Jim is remembering what I think was the last time he did see the trees in leaf, trying to recapture something he will never see again and not getting it quite right--I'm not sure if the way it looked was supposed to be artistic or how he was now visualizing something he had not seen or probably even thought about in a year.

I kind of missed seeing Jim's mind work. It shouldn't have been overdone but an occasion glimpse would have sufficed.

The blotches in the Pilot were just not right. I noticed the judo instructor was in blue and Lyman in red--friend vs foe? friendly competition vs threat?

[housemouse]

hoosier said:

I personally think the scene in the park is one of the most powerful ones in the series. Jim is remembering what I think was the last time he did see the trees in leaf, trying to recapture something he will never see again and not getting it quite right--I'm not sure if the way it looked was supposed to be artistic or how he was now visualizing something he had not seen or probably even thought about in a year.

I kind of missed seeing Jim's mind work. It shouldn't have been overdone but an occasion glimpse would have sufficed.

I agree with you Hoosier. I didn't have any problems with it the times they used those techniques. I saw it as Jim trying to remember what certain things looked like, or in some cases being jolted by the visuals his mind created. I thought is was a fine device and they used it well most of the time.

[maggiethecat]

housemouse said:

hoosier said:

I personally think the scene in the park is one of the most powerful ones in the series. Jim is remembering what I think was the last time he did see the trees in leaf, trying to recapture something he will never see again and not getting it quite right--I'm not sure if the way it looked was supposed to be artistic or how he was now visualizing something he had not seen or probably even thought about in a year.
I kind of missed seeing Jim's mind work. It shouldn't have been overdone but an occasion glimpse would have sufficed.

I agree with you Hoosier. I didn't have any problems with it the times they used those techniques. I saw it as Jim trying to remember what certain things looked like, or in some cases being jolted by the visuals his mind created. I thought is was a fine device and they used it well most of the time.

So much agreement this morning, and count me as three. It would have been interesting to see where they could have gone with the sort of effects we saw in the first three episodes. I wonder if they were the director's choice, since the first three were directed by Gary Fleder (I believe), and the effects disappeared after that.

Controversial, or weird, or whatever your perceptions, thereafter the show pretty much relied on standard quick-cut images to show stress or imagination, such as Jim's quick image flashes when his gun is stolen. (The only exception I can think of off the top of my head is the bleached-out Christie images "Marlon's Brando.") A more traditional technique, and effective . . . but the other images -- the subway in mid-air, the bones under the Crider boy's skin, even the carrion flies buzzing -- were more imaginative, weren't they?

[bjobsessed]

Count me in as four! I liked it too. The only part I didn't like was the red blotches. Other than that, I found it very interesting to see inside his mind, what he was thinking, and feeling. I always felt like it gave us an idea of what a good detective he was before and still was.

[anna]

I thought that the first Amsterdam Gym scene in Fancy Footwork was another example of this. Based on the sounds around him and what he had seen in the past, Jim "saw" the fighters going through their paces - but as individuals in a "fog", not as a large group of people doing different things at the same time.

[doobrah]

Here's something I always wondered about. Karen tells Jim she got paged and there's "cell service out back." Huh?

Dumb question: Do cell phones not work inside homes in NY? Or was it just a plot device to get Jim outside to hear the flies and smell the dead dog?

[bjobsessed]

doobrah said:

Here's something I always wondered about. Karen tells Jim she got paged and there's "cell service out back." Huh?

Dumb question: Do cell phones not work inside homes in NY? Or was it just a plot device to get Jim outside to hear the flies and smell the dead dog?

I think it was just a plot device to get Jim alone. I use my cell phone in the house from time to time without a problem. Obviously, I don't live in NY, but how different can it be?

[mlm828]

bjobsessed said:

doobrah said:

Here's something I always wondered about. Karen tells Jim she got paged and there's "cell service out back." Huh?

Dumb question: Do cell phones not work inside homes in NY? Or was it just a plot device to get Jim outside to hear the flies and smell the dead dog?

I think it was just a plot device to get Jim alone. I use my cell phone in the house from time to time without a problem. Obviously, I don't live in NY, but how different can it be?

I vote for a plot device, too. When I was in NYC last month, my cell phone worked just fine from inside my friends' homes -- most notably, for a delightful chat with our very own maggie!

[inuvik]

mlm828 said:

bjobsessed said:

I think it was just a plot device to get Jim alone. I use my cell phone in the house from time to time without a problem. Obviously, I don't live in NY, but how different can it be?

I vote for a plot device, too. When I was in NYC last month, my cell phone worked just fine from inside my friends' homes -- most notably, for a delightful chat with our very own maggie!

In the building where I live, no one can use cell phones. They have to go out onto the patios. It's apparently all the concrete in the building, and brick on that.

Also, some units can't get very good TV reception with antennas, so may be the same kind of thing. (Fortunately mine is great, hooray!)

[hoosier]

Cell service can vary here place to place what with the local topography and tower placement. It also depends a lot on the provider as well as some seem able to do it anywhere and others have problems.

Karen excused herself to make a call in RRT, leaving Jim and Mary Beth alone while she searched the bathroom for evidence,and she also said that she had to make another call in LOF so Jim could question Ethan Archer in private about Warren Doyle.Cells are either a wonderful invention or the bane of human existence!

[hoosier]

Since the cell service was a ploy to get Jim into the back yard, what was it with his losing his bag enroute to work? Was it just a continuity problem? Did props forget to hand him the bag when they shot the scene? Oh, prop boy!!! I can't see the writer's bailing, though it would have been more convincing having Jim trying to find his satchel and Hank and having to explain how the computer got broken, since I could just see that cab running over it!