A New Take on The Pilot

[maggiethecat]

mlm828 said:

It seems a little odd to me that they set up the issue of Jim's infidelity in the Pilot and revisited it in the second and third episodes -- and then it basically disappears.

How funny is it that, after all this time and how many discussions, I had never thought about that. You're absolutely right -- the issue of infidelity disappears completely. I attributed that to the scene with the bouquet and the Mulligan: she forgave him and that was that. Even though he only asked to "re-do" the previous year, to me he was asking for a fresh start and she was giving him one. So we cross infidelity off the marital list, but don't for a minute think it'll be smooth sailing for the Dunbars. Not when he won't talk and she won't stop nagging.

After the disastrous homecoming scene in The Pilot . . . am I the only one who didn't wonder why Jim had looked for solace and companionship elsewhere? I am not condoning his actions -- and neither did he -- I'm just sayin' I find it understandable considering Miz Dunbar's witchy tendencies.

There were so many times when I found myself wondering just what the hell Christie did want from this man. Did we ever get a clear sense of whether or not, for instance, she wanted Jim to get his job back in the first place?

[hoosier]

maggiethecat said:

After the disastrous homecoming scene in The Pilot . . . am I the only one who didn't wonder why Jim had looked for solace and companionship elsewhere? I am not condoning his actions -- and neither did he -- I'm just sayin' I find it understandable considering Miz Dunbar's witchy tendencies.

There were so many times when I found myself wondering just what the hell Christie did want from this man. Did we ever get a clear sense of whether or not, for instance, she wanted Jim to get his job back in the first place?

At their meeting with Galloway, Christie said that there were things she was not willing to discuss unless he took them on as clients. I assumed that she was alluding to the affair since she felt perfectly free to say that Jim was "all about the job".

On the surface, things seemed to be going great but something was sure to come along. They always do in tv land. Oh, the possiblities for a second season. *sigh* We may have even had an Anne sighting!

She must have supported his return to work however grudgingly. It would not have been impossible for him to have done it on his own but would have been harder if she had
refused to help him. I could understand any misgivings she would have had , I mean he had almost been killed, but you have no idea if she even voiced them to him. Maybe she didn't even try since she knew he wouldn't have listened to them anyway. Chalk it up to another instance of a 'failure to communicate' between the Dunbars!

[anna]

maggiethecat said:

I am not condoning his actions -- and neither did he -- I'm just sayin' I find it understandable considering Miz Dunbar's witchy tendencies.

I attributed her witchy tendencies to his past behavior. If it had been me, I suspect that he would have taken a hit to the head before the incident at the bank.

maggiethecat said:

There were so many times when I found myself wondering just what the hell Christie did want from this man. Did we ever get a clear sense of whether or not, for instance, she wanted Jim to get his job back in the first place?

I always thought that she looked genuinely excited for him that first morning as he left for work.



What a surprise. We disagree again(!) about Christie.

[maggiethecat]

I'll be baaaaack later . . . but I am so LOL because it seems all I have to do to get the discusion hoppin' again is diss the ever-controversial Miz Dunbar.

Seriously -- and bearing in mind that had she not been such a witch the drama would have been markedly lessened -- did none of you perceive her as the Witch of Endor?

You don't need me -- you need your dog.



I still haven't forgiven her for that one. Nuff said.

Or not?

[Duchess of Lashes]

Sheesh! Here we go again! I have watched and watched and rewatched the Pilot episode. And I have yet to come away from it thinking that Christie is anything but human!

She has suffered through a year of having to suppress her own emotions, of trying to remain supportive and encouraging to her husband under what I have to think would be the most trying of circumstances. Not only the infidelity but waiting and wondering how you were ever going to find a semblance of normalcy in your newly adjusted life, whatever normalcy might be.

Add to that the worry of watching him return to the job that almost cost him his life and remain supportive through that process too, once again holding your own fears and insecurities in check. (I wonder how many times Christie found herself in the back of the closet with a towel pressed against her face, trying to find somehow, somewhere to vent what had to be incredible frustration and hurt!) Did Jim ever really know how much she had been keeping inside or how much she had actually been "sitting on" all of these months?

What strikes me is that she is so excited to see Jim arrive home from work, his first day back - whether it be because he is walking through the door "whole" - or because she really is sure that life is finally going to be that new sense of "normal" and he shuts her out again.

I find her reaction brutually honest. She is defensive and wounded. Was she expecting too much? Absolutely. Was the timing a little off? Without a doubt.

He doesn't need her....he needs his dog. How many times over the course of the past year has she found herself relegated to watching, a spectator, wanting to help, unsure of whether she will be stepping on his toes or his independence. We don't know;we will never know.

But I don't find her a witch, just a wounded woman, looking for her place again, trying to figure out where it is that she belongs in this new world.

[mlm828]

maggiethecat said:

Seriously -- and bearing in mind that had she not been such a witch the drama would have been markedly lessened -- did none of you perceive her as the Witch of Endor?

Not really -- not in the context of the scene and what I think the writers were trying to do. I don't think the intent of the scene was to leave viewers thinking, "Christie is a bitch." Rather, I think the intent of the scene was to establish that the Dunbars' marriage was troubled and to present, in a single scene, a microcosm of their problems. I think the writers and actors succeeded brilliantly.

longlashes said:

Sheesh! Here we go again! I have watched and watched and rewatched the Pilot episode. And I have yet to come away from it thinking that Christie is anything but human!

She has suffered through a year of having to suppress her own emotions, of trying to remain supportive and encouraging to her husband under what I have to think would be the most trying of circumstances. Not only the infidelity but waiting and wondering how you were ever going to find a semblance of normalcy in your newly adjusted life, whatever normalcy might be.

Add to that the worry of watching him return to the job that almost cost him his life and remain supportive through that process too, once again holding your own fears and insecurities in check. (I wonder how many times Christie found herself in the back of the closet with a towel pressed against her face, trying to find somehow, somewhere to vent what had to be incredible frustration and hurt!) Did Jim ever really know how much she had been keeping inside, how much she didn't let him see, how much hurt she was really holding onto?

What strikes me is that she is so excited to see Jim arrive home from work, his first day back - whether it be because he is walking through the door "whole" - or because she really is sure that life is finally going to be that new sense of "normal" and he shuts her out again.

I find her reaction brutally honest. She is defensive and wounded. Was she expecting too much? Absolutely. Was the timing a little off? Without a doubt.

He doesn't need her....he needs his dog. How many times over the course of the past year has she found herself relegated to watching, a spectator, wanting to help, unsure of whether she will be stepping on his toes or his independence. We don't know;we will never know.

But I don't find her a witch, just a wounded woman, looking for her place again, trying to figure out where it is that she belongs in this new world.

What Lori said.

In addition, this scene tells us so much about the depth and breadth of their failure to communicate. Jim is so focused on and defensive about the doubts he's been dealing with all day long that he assumes Christie is doubting him, but I don't think that's what she meant to say at all. Christie is so focused on her hope that things will finally be different and Jim will finally "let her in," now that he's back on the job, that she fails to heed his signals that he needs to decompress before having a conversation about his day. No fault-finding here -- just a powerful portrayal of a marriage in trouble.

[Duchess of Lashes]

mlm828 said:

maggiethecat said:

Seriously -- and bearing in mind that had she not been such a witch the drama would have been markedly lessened -- did none of you perceive her as the Witch of Endor?

Not really -- not in the context of the scene and what I think the writers were trying to do. I don't think the intent of the scene was to leave viewers thinking, "Christie is a bitch." Rather, I think the intent of the scene was to establish that the Dunbars' marriage was troubled and to present, in a single scene, a microcosm of their problems. I think the writers and actors succeeded brilliantly.

longlashes said:

Sheesh! Here we go again! I have watched and watched and rewatched the Pilot episode. And I have yet to come away from it thinking that Christie is anything but human!

She has suffered through a year of having to suppress her own emotions, of trying to remain supportive and encouraging to her husband under what I have to think would be the most trying of circumstances. Not only the infidelity but waiting and wondering how you were ever going to find a semblance of normalcy in your newly adjusted life, whatever normalcy might be.

Add to that the worry of watching him return to the job that almost cost him his life and remain supportive through that process too, once again holding your own fears and insecurities in check. (I wonder how many times Christie found herself in the back of the closet with a towel pressed against her face, trying to find somehow, somewhere to vent what had to be incredible frustration and hurt!) Did Jim ever really know how much she had been keeping inside, how much she didn't let him see, how much hurt she was really holding onto?

What strikes me is that she is so excited to see Jim arrive home from work, his first day back - whether it be because he is walking through the door "whole" - or because she really is sure that life is finally going to be that new sense of "normal" and he shuts her out again.

I find her reaction brutally honest. She is defensive and wounded. Was she expecting too much? Absolutely. Was the timing a little off? Without a doubt.

He doesn't need her....he needs his dog. How many times over the course of the past year has she found herself relegated to watching, a spectator, wanting to help, unsure of whether she will be stepping on his toes or his independence. We don't know;we will never know.

But I don't find her a witch, just a wounded woman, looking for her place again, trying to figure out where it is that she belongs in this new world.

What Lori said.

In addition, this scene tells us so much about the depth and breadth of their failure to communicate. Jim is so focused on and defensive about the doubts he's been dealing with all day long that he assumes Christie is doubting him, but I don't think that's what she meant to say at all. Christie is so focused on her hope that things will finally be different and Jim will finally "let her in," now that he's back on the job, that she fails to heed his signals that he needs to decompress before having a conversation about his day. No fault-finding here -- just a powerful portrayal of a marriage in trouble.

What mlm said too!

[Eyphur]

Ok so this is totally unrealated to the discussion thats going on... but I just sat down to rewatch the Pilot and I noticed something that I wanted to ask about. At about 16 seconds into the Pilot in the opening shootout there is a shot of 3 guys crouched down. The guy on the far left is that Eric Fitzgerald (the guy who was sleeping with Mary Beth in Rub a Tub Tub)? Or just someone who looks like him. I tried to find a screen cap but I couldn't find any from the sources that I know about, and I don't know how to make my own.

[greenbeing]

eyphur said:

Ok so this is totally unrealated to the discussion thats going on... but I just sat down to rewatch the Pilot and I noticed something that I wanted to ask about. At about 16 seconds into the Pilot in the opening shootout there is a shot of 3 guys crouched down. The guy on the far left is that Eric Fitzgerald (the guy who was sleeping with Mary Beth in Rub a Tub Tub)? Or just someone who looks like him. I tried to find a screen cap but I couldn't find any from the sources that I know about, and I don't know how to make my own.

I know the guy you're talking about, E, wearing the gray sweatshirt, right? Next to the uniformed officer? I'm 99 % sure that's NOT Eric.

--GB

[Duchess of Lashes]

eyphur said:

Ok so this is totally unrealated to the discussion thats going on... but I just sat down to rewatch the Pilot and I noticed something that I wanted to ask about. At about 16 seconds into the Pilot in the opening shootout there is a shot of 3 guys crouched down. The guy on the far left is that Eric Fitzgerald (the guy who was sleeping with Mary Beth in Rub a Tub Tub)? Or just someone who looks like him. I tried to find a screen cap but I couldn't find any from the sources that I know about, and I don't know how to make my own.

If these are the three guys crouching, the guy in front bears a slight resemblance to Eric Fitzgerald but it's not the same guy.

[greenbeing]

longlashes said:

eyphur said:

Ok so this is totally unrealated to the discussion thats going on... but I just sat down to rewatch the Pilot and I noticed something that I wanted to ask about. At about 16 seconds into the Pilot in the opening shootout there is a shot of 3 guys crouched down. The guy on the far left is that Eric Fitzgerald (the guy who was sleeping with Mary Beth in Rub a Tub Tub)? Or just someone who looks like him. I tried to find a screen cap but I couldn't find any from the sources that I know about, and I don't know how to make my own.

If these are the three guys crouching, the guy in front bears a slight resemblance to Eric Fitzgerald but it's not the same guy.

That's right, the kid with the dog collar. Nice screencap.

It was this moment that always made me wonder about witnesses... And other cops on the scene. We have the two guys here who are clearly just bystanders who can't escape. So it's always made me wonder about the people who would have seen exactly what happened between Jim and Terry and the gun incident... Although the cops might never have thought to interview the bystanders on anything except the gunman... So maybe the "Terry, take the shot!" moment wouldn't have come out, as there was no real reason to ask about it...

--GB

[mlm828]

greenbeing said:

It was this moment that always made me wonder about witnesses... And other cops on the scene. We have the two guys here who are clearly just bystanders who can't escape. So it's always made me wonder about the people who would have seen exactly what happened between Jim and Terry and the gun incident... Although the cops might never have thought to interview the bystanders on anything except the gunman... So maybe the "Terry, take the shot!" moment wouldn't have come out, as there was no real reason to ask about it...

I have never been able to figure out whether these witnesses, along with any others who might have survived the shoot-out, were in a position to see what happened with Jim and Terry. Since Terry remained on the job, my guess is that no one but Jim, Terry, and the (deceased) gunman saw what happened. If no one else knew what happened, and if Jim didn't say anything, there would be no reason to investigate Terry's conduct.

Edited to add: In "Up on the Roof," no one knew the whole story about what happened at the bank, which supports this theory. On the other hand, it's also possible other cops saw what happened but didn't want to rat out a fellow cop. But would they protect Terry under these circumstances?

[greenbeing]

longlashes said:

What strikes me is that she is so excited to see Jim arrive home from work, his first day back - whether it be because he is walking through the door "whole" - or because she really is sure that life is finally going to be that new sense of "normal" and he shuts her out again.

I've never quite figured out exactly what I think of Christie. But this was an interesting observation, perhaps the reason why everything started to come out in the Pilot.

The last time Jim went to work, he didn't come home. Today he went to work, and she was very tense, wringing her hands. But then he came home! What a relief! It sort of completed the cycle. Everything was back to normal, she could forget the blindness and the job. She might have just started thinking about everything else in life. Like everything they'd been through before.

I never thought she meant any harm with her comment. "I'm just surprised they put you back on a major case your first day." And she had no way of knowing that Jim had a bummer of a day, and, where everything was back to normal for Christie, for Jim... Not so much. For Jim, he was finally able to see (pun intended) just how much his life had changed. Going back to work wasn't the relief he'd thought it would be. He was still fighting for position. And "he didn't need that when he came home."

So I won't say I think Christie's a nice person, or not. But in the Pilot, I think she was not culpable entirely. I still often wonder just what they have in common as a couple, but I won't excuse either one of them as saints.

--GB

P.S. (complete aside) Did anyone else ever notice that when Jim said "Not so much" it looked like he was gesturing with handcuffs on? "You know you can do the time..."

[anna]

eyphur said:

Ok so this is totally unrealated to the discussion thats going on...

Karma to Eyphur for trying to get us off the subject of Christie!

[Eyphur]

anna said:

eyphur said:

Ok so this is totally unrealated to the discussion thats going on...

Karma to Eyphur for trying to get us off the subject of Christie!

I'm not trying to get you guys off the subject of Christie. I rather like it. Very nostalgic, I remember the discussions on Christie from about a year ago, on Shades.

Thanks for the Karma!