Doggone

[mlm828]

hoosier said:

Does anyone remember any of the others calling in an APB on Debbie's car as it sped away with Jim and Hank? If they didn't, why not! They would have known make and model, maybe not license plate and which direction it was heading as they disappeared. Of course for dramatic reasons they couldn't find Jim too soon, but I wondered if they did this or not.

Good question -- and one I've wondered about, too. We don't see them calling in any information about Debbie's car. Marty and Tom definitely had enough time to note the license plate (assuming they could see it from where they were). I think you're absolutely correct that these things were not done for dramatic reasons -- Jim wouldn't have been lost if they'd done them.

Along the same lines, I have always wondered: Wouldn't a valuable guide dog like Hank have a microchip, so his owner could be located if he were brought to a shelter or vet's office? This fact was probably also ignored for dramatic reasons, so that we would have the scenes of Jim calling shelters to ask about Hank, and Jim and Karen going to the shelter to see if the German Shepherd there was Hank.

[hoosier]

mlm828 said:

Along the same lines, I have always wondered: Wouldn't a valuable guide dog like Hank have a microchip, so his owner could be located if he were brought to a shelter or vet's office? This fact was probably also ignored for dramatic reasons, so that we would have the scenes of Jim calling shelters to ask about Hank, and Jim and Karen going to the shelter to see if the German Shepherd there was Hank.

That is also a good point. When the local animal shelter urges you to get your adopted pet microchipped, you would certainly think for a guide dog it would be standard procedure. Again, probably for dramatic reasons.

[greenbeing]

So last night I finally paid attention during the ending of Doggone where someone said, "they link arms and walk off with Hank, down the sidewalk, past their car..." And saw Christie slow down with her right arm out, stretching toward the back door of the car to open it for Hank. Then the scene cut, the end.

It didn't look like Jim and Hank stopped, though, and after the fight with Christie that morning, maybe they went off on their own for a little "man" time.

--GB

[hoosier]

Some points bugged me with a rewatch of this ep.

1. Sonny said that Bud had called him to set up a deal.

2.Bud had supposedly put the coke in the lockers 'yesterday'. If Debbie had been cut out of the deal, how did she know where it was. Did she follow him or force him to tell her before she wacked him with the baseball bat?

3.Sonny called Debbie to ask her if she knew about Bud. Debbie wanted to move the coke and asked Sonny to help set up a deal and Sonny's brainstorm about the blind drug dealer is born.

4.Johnny said that they had heard on the street about the deal with the blind dealer. How? It had just been set up that morning by Sonny. Loose lips sink ships!

5.Sonny tells Jim that there had been blabbing and it must have gotten back to the 'original owners, the Puerto Ricans".

6. Debbie did not seem to be that stupid. She should have been seeing as how she was trying to do something she knew absolutely nothing about and was in way over her head. I mean, the coke did not magically appear in the sofait had to belong to someone! She wanted to move the coke NOW , as she told Jim, but was rookie enough not to bring a sample,instead taking them to the 'secret hiding place'.

It just seems that Sonny was trying to play both sides of the street. Originally he was helping Bud, probably counting on a little payback for his efforts. Then Bud is killed and he 'helps' Debbie only for the chance of finding Bud's killer but if Debbie ends up under a bus so much the better.

But someone talks. I don't think it was Debbie, who is only interested in the money,fast, so she would be loath to screw with the one deal she had going. The PR did find out and either contacted Sonny or followed him. To Sonny's utter dismay, the coke is gone and he later finds out that cousin Bud went behind his back to Rory Glann. Another case of Sonny 'thinking too much'?

[Dreamfire]

hoosier said:

Some points bugged me with a rewatch of this ep.

1. Sonny said that Bud had called him to set up a deal.

2.Bud had supposedly put the coke in the lockers 'yesterday'. If Debbie had been cut out of the deal, how did she know where it was. Did she follow him or force him to tell her before she wacked him with the baseball bat?

3.Sonny called Debbie to ask her if she knew about Bud. Debbie wanted to move the coke and asked Sonny to help set up a deal and Sonny's brainstorm about the blind drug dealer is born.

4.Johnny said that they had heard on the street about the deal with the blind dealer. How? It had just been set up that morning by Sonny. Loose lips sink ships!

5.Sonny tells Jim that there had been blabbing and it must have gotten back to the 'original owners, the Puerto Ricans".

6. Debbie did not seem to be that stupid. She should have been seeing as how she was trying to do something she knew absolutely nothing about and was in way over her head. I mean, the coke did not magically appear in the sofait had to belong to someone! She wanted to move the coke NOW , as she told Jim, but was rookie enough not to bring a sample,instead taking them to the 'secret hiding place'.

It just seems that Sonny was trying to play both sides of the street. Originally he was helping Bud, probably counting on a little payback for his efforts. Then Bud is killed and he 'helps' Debbie only for the chance of finding Bud's killer but if Debbie ends up under a bus so much the better.

But someone talks. I don't think it was Debbie, who is only interested in the money,fast, so she would be loath to screw with the one deal she had going. The PR did find out and either contacted Sonny or followed him. To Sonny's utter dismay, the coke is gone and he later finds out that cousin Bud went behind his back to Rory Glann. Another case of Sonny 'thinking too much'?

Hi Hoosier,

I reckon you'd make detective.
Maybe it goes down like this:
A. If Sonny is an informer for the police, perhaps he is an informer for others?
B. He knew the PR's previously and after Bud was killed and his ability to get some dough out of that situation had apparently dried up, Dunbar calls him and maybe he thinks Dunbar might be good for finding it and getting him some cash- both ways police money and PR money.
c. He sets up the deal with not only Debbie but the PR's.
They know when to show up, they have followed Sonny and expect to grab the coke that is theirs.
Gianni's first words are directed to Sonny "where is it?"
Sonny answers"We don't have anything cause we got ripped off already."

d. Sonny expects Debbie get's at least some payback by losing her coke money and some jail time for trying to sell coke. ( not as much as hit by a bus but at least she loses which would suit Sonny)

e. Part of the deal is Sonny and Dunbar will be left alone.

f. To me Sonny did not look scared enough of the PRs, the echo factor on "You best not be messing with me Sonny boy" indicates to me that Dunbar thought that was worth noting and maybe the PR knew Sonny and expected him to be there and that things are not going as expected. I don't know why Dunbar did not pursue the idea that Sonny had set them up.

what do you think?
Natascha

[mlm828]

ashatan said:

Hi Hoosier,

I reckon you'd make detective.
Maybe it goes down like this:
A. If Sonny is an informer for the police, perhaps he is an informer for others?
B. He knew the PR's previously and after Bud was killed and his ability to get some dough out of that situation had apparently dried up, Dunbar calls him and maybe he thinks Dunbar might be good for finding it and getting him some cash- both ways police money and PR money.
c. He sets up the deal with not only Debbie but the PR's.
They know when to show up, they have followed Sonny and expect to grab the coke that is theirs.
Gianni's first words are directed to Sonny "where is it?"
Sonny answers"We don't have anything cause we got ripped off already."

d. Sonny expects Debbie get's at least some payback by losing her coke money and some jail time for trying to sell coke. ( not as much as hit by a bus but at least she loses which would suit Sonny)

e. Part of the deal is Sonny and Dunbar will be left alone.

f. To me Sonny did not look scared enough of the PRs, the echo factor on "You best not be messing with me Sonny boy" indicates to me that Dunbar thought that was worth noting and maybe the PR knew Sonny and expected him to be there and that things are not going as expected. I don't know why Dunbar did not pursue the idea that Sonny had set them up.

what do you think?
Natascha

We've all gone round and round so many times on the question of whether Sonny was in cahoots with the Puerto Rican drug dealers -- it's good to have a fresh perspective from Down Under! It could have gone down the way you suggest. The only problem is that if Sonny made a deal with the drug dealers, the only way he gets paid by them is if they get the drugs and escape. But Sonny can't count on that happening if he involves Dunbar, because the plan would only work if Dunbar goes in alone, and Sonny knows (or should know) that Dunbar would not be sent in without back-up. I think the other detectives' losing Jim was purely fortuitous, and not part of Sonny's plan. Of course, Sonny isn't all that bright, and maybe he just didn't think things through completely.

hoosier said:

4.Johnny said that they had heard on the street about the deal with the blind dealer. How? It had just been set up that morning by Sonny. Loose lips sink ships!

I think Johnny heard "on the street" that the drugs had been found, but not about the deal with the "blind drug dealer."

[Duchess of Lashes]

mlm828 said:

hoosier said:

4.Johnny said that they had heard on the street about the deal with the blind dealer. How? It had just been set up that morning by Sonny. Loose lips sink ships!

I think Johnny heard "on the street" that the drugs had been found, but not about the deal with the "blind drug dealer."

When Selway is interviewing Johnny, he specifically asks him how it is they knew that this Debbie wanted to offload the Coke and Johnny responds, "Heard it on the streets. These people are idiots, working with some blind guy to sell it."

My interpretation of Johnny's response is that the Puerto Ricans heard on the street that Debbie wanted to offload the coke - period! They had no knowledge beforehand that a blind guy was involved in the process - that came later, after the incident at the junkyard. Would Luis have made the comment "You're blind", with the bit of disbelief in his voice (Sonny had already addressed that once, Luis had to test that theory by waving the gun in front of "Ted's" eyes) had they known ahead of time that Debbie was working with a "blind guy."

I firmly believe the second part of Johnny's response is merely an observation based on what they had gleaned from the junk yard meeting, and whatever went down in the cars afterward. "These people are idiots (true!) working with some blind guy to sell it." (That's the other part that sells it for me - Ted was a buyer - Debbie was "selling" it to him.)

[hoosier]

I know we have hashed this one point ad nauseum but after another viewing of the episode ;D these points did bug me so I just threw them out there to see what others thought! Ashatan, you did make several good points! Sonny was just tooooo calm when Johnny and Luis showed up. You knew they weren't there to ask directions! Too bad we never got to see Jim get to the bottom of "you best not be messing with me Sonny Boy"

[mlm828]

Driving through L.A. on the 101 this afternoon, I looked to my right, and what did I see but "Hoboken":



. . . or at least the bridge in "Hoboken" from "Doggone."

[Duchess of Lashes]

mlm828 said:

Driving through L.A. on the 101 this afternoon, I looked to my right, and what did I see but "Hoboken":



. . . or at least the bridge in "Hoboken" from "Doggone."

Great catch MLM!! So since when is Hoboken part of greater LA? (You say you were on the 101 - where was the bridge?)

[mlm828]

longlashes said:

You say you were on the 101 - where was the bridge?

We were going south on the 101, south of downtown. I happened to look to my right and noticed the two arches. The 101 goes under the other end of the bridge, to the far left out of the picture. I've driven that stretch of road many times, and I thought the bridge in "Doggone" looked familiar!

[Dreamfire]

Wow , that's pretty cool!

Hey I have gone searching for the film crew you guys mentionedin dogggone but cannot find it?

[bjobsessed]

ashatan said:

Wow , that's pretty cool!

Hey I have gone searching for the film crew you guys mentionedin dogggone but cannot find it?

I think I saw them once when Jim was walking along the fence. You have to look very carefully though. It's quick. Supposedly they're also visible in a far away shot too, but I haven't managed to spot them. Then again, I'm not good at things like that.

[greenbeing]

bjobsessed said:

ashatan said:

Wow , that's pretty cool!

Hey I have gone searching for the film crew you guys mentionedin dogggone but cannot find it?

I think I saw them once when Jim was walking along the fence. You have to look very carefully though. It's quick. Supposedly they're also visible in a far away shot too, but I haven't managed to spot them. Then again, I'm not good at things like that.

I finally saw it last month, after watching Doggone about twenty times... ;D The camera isn't focused on Jim anymore, it's after Sonny and Debbie get abducted, the shot pulls back so there's a gorgeous view of the bridge to LA--I mean Hoboken--and that usually draws the eye, as it's such a large focal object. To the right of the screen is the fence, down below, showing how small Jim is, and how there's really nothing around him, just the dirt road where Johnny and Luis have just driven down. And in that shot, there's the film crew. Some guy with a boom mic, someone with a camera. It's very quick, easy to miss. Although the people in the cutting room should have noticed it!

--GB

[Duchess of Lashes]

ashatan said:

Wow , that's pretty cool!

Hey I have gone searching for the film crew you guys mentionedin dogggone but cannot find it?

Hey, Ashatan - right after Jim chases after the car with Hank and trips and falls, the picture pans out and the film crew can be clearly seen behind the wall of rubble (look for the red shirt below the FILM CREW banner I have put on this screen cap. It's hard to see but that's the boom camera operator - there are others crew members visible as well.)