Christie Dunbar -- villain or goddess?

[greenbeing]

I really didn't like Scarlett, I think. This is looking back over several years, but I thought she was spoiled and pretentious. I can't say I liked Rhett much, either. Their whole family dynamic was off... The way they treated each other... I think I remember being very peeved over how they treated the death of their child. They just had very little respect for each other. It's a frustrating movie when you have no empathy for the heroine. I certainly hope the Dunbars wouldn't end up like them!

But I will put GwtW on my book list. I'll check it out sometime. I finally read Rebecca and was very pleased, despite it being a slow read. I don't know why I'm associating the two--I think someone once told me there were similarities... Hmm. ?

--GB

[shmeep]

maggiethecat said:

Read the book. Forget the movie.

There is a reason Margaret Mitchell won the 1936 Pulitzer Prize.

Amen! Loved the book (I've been reading it repeatedly since the 8th grade) AND loved the movie.

As for Christie...there's a lot that's implied about their relationship but you have to read between the lines. I think a lot of it can be found in Rena Sofer's performance. I've seen in numerous interviews with many cast members that she made the most of a very small part and I agree with that. Yes, she had some mood swings that made her seem psycho at times, but I also think she's human and REAL and she stopped cutting Jim any slack long ago. Which is what he needs. She doesn't pity him, so that could be what rubs so many viewers the wrong way. How can she do that to the beautiful blind guy? Well, she knows all his faults and isn't about to let him get away with anything and I LOVE that about her. I'm so glad they didn't make her too mushy and supportive, nor did they make her too evil.

I know I've said it before, but having a disabled husband has given me more sympathy for her character than most of you seem to have. Perhaps she has ceased to even see him as disabled as I have my husband and therefore has very high expectations of him.

I thought Christie was very supportive and empathetic in the last few episodes, beginning with the end of Doggone. Her advice to him in Under the Gun showed wisdom (not that dancing is the answer, but the concept behind finding things to replace what is lost is spot on) and it got him out of what could have been a slump. I liked her before that but that was the defining moment for me.

(Green, I'd hate to see you veer too far from the show in your fic.)

[greenbeing]

I agree that I'm glad she wasn't cutting him any slack just because he was blind. I think what really has gotten to me is the lack of background they gave her (and them as a couple). Yeah, Jim drives her crazy, but all we know about is the affair and his job. I just really wish we'd gotten to see a counseling session, get into the nitty-gritty of their relationship.

I also did like how she told him, if he thought he was losing things, to put other things in their place. She seemed to like to play counselor to him when it came to his job.

And my fav. line between them was "And I was just clumsy!" (Wasn't that about the only time Jim ever gave her grief back?) Though the party scene made me very uncomfortable. I wondered if that was par for the course between them before the shooting, to take him to these parties and just leave him, expect him to mingle on his own.

I just don't like Christie because she'd never be in my social circle, not so much how she treated Jim. She just doesn't seem like a friendly person, v. fake. And pretentious, if you'll forgive me using that term in two subsequent posts. I've known way too many people who put up a persona, try to be everyone's best friends, make contacts with powerful people... And it's all fake, they really hate everyone and grumble and complain about them all day.

I can empathize with her situation, but I just can't find anything to like about the lady.

But I am very glad she didn't get all coddly.

--GB

[maggiethecat]

admin said:

She doesn't pity him, so that could be what rubs so many viewers the wrong way. How can she do that to the beautiful blind guy? Well, she knows all his faults and isn't about to let him get away with anything and I LOVE that about her. I'm so glad they didn't make her too mushy and supportive, nor did they make her too evil.

I know I've said it before, but having a disabled husband has given me more sympathy for her character than most of you seem to have. Perhaps she has ceased to even see him as disabled as I have my husband and therefore has very high expectations of him.

AMEN to the Mighty Shmeep. How wonderfully well said.

For the record, although I thought Christie icy and unyielding at times, I always LOVED that pity was not in her vocabulary. In fact, her attitude towards the blindness always seemed to me to be sane and healthy. Her problems were never about the disability, but his past behavior and his absorbtion in the job.

Karen was never about pity or cutting slack, either, one of the many reasons why I so liked the character.

[shmeep]

maggiethecat said:

AMEN to the Mighty Shmeep. How wonderfully well said.

For the record, although I thought Christie icy and unyielding at times, I always LOVED that pity was not in her vocabulary. In fact, her attitude towards the blindness always seemed to me to be sane and healthy. Her problems were never about the disability, but his past behavior and his absorbtion in the job.

Karen was never about pity or cutting slack, either, one of the many reasons why I so liked the character.

Aw, thanks!

When I watch Christie with Jim, I sometimes think of how people would view me if they got little unexplained snippets of my behavior toward my husband without having the benefit of knowing what he did to deserve my reactions. I bet a lot of people would hate me too!

[housemouse]

admin said:

maggiethecat said:

AMEN to the Mighty Shmeep. How wonderfully well said.

For the record, although I thought Christie icy and unyielding at times, I always LOVED that pity was not in her vocabulary. In fact, her attitude toward the blindness always seemed to me to be sane and healthy. Her problems were never about the disability, but his past behavior and his absorption in the job.

Karen was never about pity or cutting slack, either, one of the many reasons why I so liked the character.

Aw, thanks!

When I watch Christie with Jim, I sometimes think of how people would view me if they got little unexplained snippets of my behavior toward my husband without having the benefit of knowing what he did to deserve my reactions. I bet a lot of people would hate me too!

That is what it comes down to, most people view Jim as a "disabled man" Christie views him as a man. Just like Shmeep and The Boy, Shmeep sees him as a man, nothing more, nothing less. My guess is they treat one another pretty much the same way my husband and I treat one another. It is about the relationship, not about the disability.

I think that is why Christie tends to grate on people so much. The writers didn't cop out and make her a martyr. She stayed with Jim after the shooting, but because she loves him, not because of the blindness. She stayed with him, she loves him, but that doesn't mean she has forgiven him. Jim and Christie have to work through Jim's extramarital affair just like any other couple would. Working through it just got put off until Jim got back on his feet after the shooting. I think it is fair to assume that he is on the road to recovery, being back on the job. So we have met Jim and Christie and a particularly trying time in their relationship. They need to work through the issues that have been on the back burner for the past year.

So let's look at Christie. She is a wife who has been cheated on, that must have devastated her. Not only that, she has stuffed her feelings about that for the last year. She also spent the last year worrying about her severely wounded husband. Can you imagine how guilty she must have felt for being mad a hero cop blinded in a horrible shoot out? (Ok, that just may be my Catholic guilt projected on to Christie.)

Christie is beautiful and fashion conscious. So what? Does that make her shallow? Not necessarily, it just makes her a person who cares about her appearance. So she works in the fashion industry. Does that make her shallow? Not necessarily. It just makes her a driven woman with an interest in fashion. Good for her for being able to turn something she obviously enjoys into a career!

If Christie was a dowdy housewife or in some other unglamorous profession, would we even be having this discussion?

[doobrah]

I've been reading all these great posts and just want to interject that Christie has her passive-aggressive moments, too.

I mean there are times when I really like her, like when she initiates things in the beginning of Marlon's Brando. But the episode when she starts in on Jim about "I didn't think I was allowed to answer your phone" ("Doggone" I think) --- Jeez, give me a break. And then Ms. PMS bolts out the door leaving Jim and the audience to wonder, "What the...?"

Maybe the backstory is they were both turned on by the drama ... that seemed to be the running theme between them.

[kytdunne]

From the point of view of someone who finds Christie less-than-appealing the vast majority of the time...

First, it wouldn't dawn on me to judge Christie based upon her treatment of Dunbar since I have so much else to use. She's a flake. There's no knowing from moment to moment if she'll be running hot or cold, and she's got a seriously flawed line-of-logic (ex: her 'explanation' of what was wrong 'in the morning' when she so calmly lays things out at the end of Doggone - she's incredibly off track).

I'd have been very interested in seeing where the second season took this character as the writer's would've had to give some serous consideration to the character and what makes her so nutty and how to balance her out - or not, if that's what they were going for.

As for her relationship with Dunbar and a martyr/pity thing not happening: This show was never about pity-the-poor-blind-guy and anyone who somehow thinks Dunbar is worthy of pity after the guy battles his way back to the force in a year, just hasn't been paying attention. This isn't a guy who lays around feeling bad for himself, nor does he rely on anyone else believing in him. If he has to go it alone, he does exactly that. I just don't see where there's room there for pity.

And Christie seems to have thought - somehow - that she'd have had more of Dunbar's attention post-blindness than she did pre-blindness. But it didn't change and she's still griping about it (on top of his infidelity).

Season 2 would've been entertaining.

Kyt

[maggiethecat]

kytdunne said:

She's a flake. There's no knowing from moment to moment if she'll be running hot or cold, and she's got a seriously flawed line-of-logic (ex: her 'explanation' of what was wrong 'in the morning' when she so calmly lays things out at the end of Doggone - she's incredibly off track). And Christie seems to have thought - somehow - that she'd have had more of Dunbar's attention post-blindness than she did pre-blindness. But it didn't change and she's still griping about it (on top of his infidelity).

Season 2 would've been entertaining. Kyt

Kyt, I love your take on this. ;D

When you think about it, Christie is the only character that is inconsistent. Every character has an arc of growth and change, but they remain consistent to their natures throughout.

Jim? He grows and accepts and experiences, but he is consistently -- from first moments of The Pilot to the final shot -- the character as initially established, the tragic hero on a journey. Russo? I would argue that he doesn't so much change as relax. Sellway's the same ultra-nice, non-confrontational guy from beginning to end. Fisk and Karen don't so much change as let loose of their initial skepticism as Dunbar proves his worth.

But Christie's a wild card.

You never know whan he walks in the door, if Dunbar is going to find the loving supportive woman he fantasizes about or the icy, judgmental goddess.

Yeah, it does make it interesting.

More thoughts?

[hoosier]

I can see Jim and Christie coming from different sides of the track--I always assumed she came from money, was well-educated and definitley career-oriented. When she was complaining to Galloway about Jim and his work obession, I loved it when Galloway asked her if Jim was a cop when they married and when she said yes, he said well, that hadn't changed. In other words, quite whining about it!

In Marlon's Brando, I think the writer's missed an opportunity when Jim finally admitted that "it wasn't easy". What,What, What!!!!! Being a cop, being a blind cop or just being blind!!!!! Christie didn't ask him to elaborate. She tells him she loves him--"you're still my man" but what in the world possessed her to say "and you still got the gun" To me if there were any throw-away lines in the entire series, that is it. To me it was just another jab at the 'blind cop with a gun' line that I hated from all the promos which I think directly impacted on the success of the show because it turned a lot of people off.

I just happened to read an article in the Oct. 2005 Readers Digest called "Big Boys Don't Cry" by Dianne Hale. Christie should read this thing!!! A few points I thought fit the show wonderfully--

1."Don't press a man to talk about a bad day. If he's spent a day struggling, he may just want to get away from the pain" says psychologist Ken Christian,"What's the point of being miserable all evening when that won't solve the problem"---The Pilot kitchen scene to a T

2."When he's feeling powerless, he shuts down and withdraws" Mark Goulston, psychiatrist

3."Do something physical together. When you hike or bike, a man's defenses come down. Let topics bubble up naturally but don't force a man to walk and talk, or he may balk"--OK she got this one but ballroom dancing?

[sport57]

Thanks for mentioning the article in the October 2005 Readers Digest. I've been carrying that issue in my briefcase for the past month, not having time to even glance through it and was thinking I should just pass it along to someone else. Read your post, pulled out the magazine, found the article and paperclipped the page. I'll be sure to read it.

[housemouse]

maggiethecat said:

But Christie's a wild card.

You never know when he walks in the door, if Dunbar is going to find the loving supportive woman he fantasizes about or the icy, judgmental goddess.

Yeah, it does make it interesting.

More thoughts?

I think my husband could pretty much say the same thing about me at certain points. I would have to say one of my greatest gifts is being able to be every inch the icy judgmental goddess, then going into charm mode to get my way (wow, heaven help me if DH ever reads this post .

Christie is a woman. Let's face it, she is the woman in the series we got to know best. Yes, we know Karen a little, but just from her interactions with Jim and her little fling with Nick (which by the way I found very unbelievable, but that is a whole different thread). But we see Christie interacting with Jim, with his co-workers, with her co-workers, Galloway. We see more of her inner-workings. By virtue of seeing more of her, we see more of her jerky side. Her inconsistency may be what makes her consistent.

[shmeep]

housemouse said:

Her inconsistency may be what makes her consistent.

I'm with you, Mouse! You have summed up my thoughts about the woman perfectly, you brilliant thing, you.

I have nothing to add.

Did I really just say that?

[maggiethecat]

housemouse said:

By virtue of seeing more of her, we see more of her jerky side. Her inconsistency may be what makes her consistent.

Oh, I don't disagree with any of what either you or Shmeep said. I just find it interesting that she is, arguably, the one character in the show that you really could call a wild card.

I still think that a large part of the way the character was written was to add as much "trouble & strife" as possible to Dunbar's life. To a certain extent, the writing team used her as a device to ramp up the misery. "Doggone" is a good example of this: start with her being teary and out of sync with Jim in the morning, then follow it with that day when he gets "lost" and Hank is stolen. So when he comes home to find that she's cancelled her dinner and is there to be supportive . . . I have to say, the first time I saw the episode it was the last thing I expected. And it made me like her more than I had, especially when she agreed to therapy with Galloway. (Sort of a reverse take on the loving way she sends him off to work in The Pilot, then nails him to the wall when he gets home that night.)

And then? A week later? She shuts Dr. G. down by refusing to open up unless he "takes them on" as clients. So if you say her inconsistency is what makes her consistent (!), then I guess this is true to pattern!

[housemouse]

admin said:

housemouse said:

Her inconsistency may be what makes her consistent.

I'm with you, Mouse! You have summed up my thoughts about the woman perfectly, you brilliant thing, you.

I have nothing to add.

Did I really just say that?

Karma for you!!!!