A different setting?

[shmeep]

Not to start a new thread just when the Too Perfect thread is really picking up, but I started to post this reply there and realized I was taking things into completely different territory so I decided to move it here before things got too off track.

inuvik said:

I would have liked to have seen more of Jim in his personal life. Just going grocery shopping, cooking dinner, cleaning house, that kind of thing. Given that it's a crime show it's understandable why that wasn't the focus. I think then we would have gotten a better picture of how Jim functioned, mistakes and all, had we seen him more outside of work.

Yes! I remember saying on some other board--TWoP?--even before the show began that it would have worked better if he were in almost any other profession. If it could have been a show about a macho and successful lawyer or businessman or even teacher who lost his sight and had to go through a lot of hoops to get his life back, people would have believed it a lot more. The workplace would have been important, but the personal life could have been explored on a much deeper level. Heh. If he had been a lawyer, they wouldn't have even needed a different name for the show!

But since it was a Bochco show on the heels of NYPD Blue, I guess Bochco thought he needed to make it more of an action show and to give it that formulaic procedural aspect in order to keep the stories going. In a way, I think the police aspect limited the stories that could be told rather than providing more. Had there been two or three years of Blind Justice, the police part might have grown a bit stale while the home life and personal life might have taken on more importance.

If this show had been in almost any other setting, there could still have been a Marty and a Tom and all the others who doubted and supported when Jim first came back to work. There may not have been an exciting shoot-out--but anyone can be in the wrong place at the wrong time and could stand up and be a hero if given the opportunity so even if he were a heroic teacher returning to school after having thwarted an attempted school shooting the year before (and saving several students in the process), the dynamic could have worked--and we would have been able to find out much more about what made him tick.

Just a thought.

[maggiethecat]

Where is it written you can’t have two great new analysis threads going at once?

When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought you meant what if Blind Justice had been set in another city? So I started thinking in that direction, but I’ll get to that in a minute.*

So. Not a blind cop? If you go back to Stephen Bochco’s original vision (and no, I’m not going for a bad pun), which is posted in the “Based on a True Story?” thread, the idea was always for a blind cop. Endless dramatic possibilities, after all, when you start exploring the character’s journey. Would the basic premise – touch macho hothead is blinded and has to learn to trust people in order to do his job – have worked with any other profession? Bochco basically writes cops and lawyers. I’m sure there are macho hotheaded lawyers out there, but I can’t see why being blinded would automatically mean you couldn’t do your job. There would be the same learning curve Dunbar experienced in terms of training and readjustment to the world, but I can’t imagine a blind lawyer facing the same prejudices and barriers. Nor would it have been as . . . well . . . compelling. Jim sneaks into the courtroom at night to memorize it so he can tell when he’s facing the jury box in the big trial the next day. Nah.

It’s the cop thing that made it work. Off the top of my head, I can think of few other professions where blindness would be an absolute impediment. (Airline pilot, surgeon, and commercial illustrator come to mind.) And Dunbar would have to have been a detective – I can’t think that a blind beat cop would have worked except as a comedy. We’ve got to chase that perp, Hank — come on, run!

Doesn’t mean there isn’t some great drama to be written about the daily life of a blind person . . . but after you’ve shown any number of times and in any number of ways how the person gets through the day, what else do you have dramatically? A complex relationship with a spouse? We got that in Blind Justice. I think the cop slant actually strengthened the show. If your lead character has to deal with every single person they come in contact with thinking they shouldn’t be doing their job – and are nuts to even try – then the dramatic possibilities are endless. NO matter how skilled Jim was -- or how much the squad came to acceot him -- he would still have to deal with the public every time they went out on a case, and deal with people's misperceptions and ignorance.

*I don’t believe Blind Justice would have worked as well in any city but New York, but I’ll save those thoughts for another post.

[shmeep]

maggiethecat said:

So. Not a blind cop? If you go back to Stephen Bochco’s original vision (and no, I’m not going for a bad pun), which is posted in the “Based on a True Story?” thread, the idea was always for a blind cop. Endless dramatic possibilities, after all, when you start exploring the character’s journey. Would the basic premise – touch macho hothead is blinded and has to learn to trust people in order to do his job – have worked with any other profession?

My answer? Yes.

I doubt we'll agree on this point because, while I loved the show and thought the cop aspect was...interesting...that was what I liked least about the show. I didn't care that much about his cases and didn't find them to be any more compelling than what you can get on any dime-a-dozen procedural drama. There are exceptions, of course, and there were many elements of Jim that were brought to light through his job, but a lot of it could have happened no matter where he worked.

Naturally the detective angle gives the show a certain kind of drama, but it is also what made so many people tune out. Had the job been something more realistic for a blind person, it may not have had the same level of drama when it came to whether or not he would be allowed to do the job in the first place, but there would always have been drama when it came to dealing with the other employees and with his own personal hurdles in order to get the job done. It wouldn't have been the same show, but I would have tuned in to watch Ron Eldard as Jim Dunbar no matter what profession Jim Dunber held.

I think my mind took this path because I'm really not into cop shows or procedurals as a rule and there was something a bit formulaic about Blind Justice and I started thinking about what that character would have been like if he had a different job. Obviously, if what you like about the show is the cop part, this won't be any more fun to comtemplate than it would be to think of who else could have played the part of Dunbar. But for those of us who were much more interested in everything except for the cases, I think it's fun to contemplate what else he could have been and what might have happened.

[maggiethecat]

Well, you're right. Of course. I happen to like cop shows for the same reason that I've always liked mysteries in general: the puzzle that must be solved by the end of the hour. And no matter what profession Jim Dunbar was in, he would have to face a certain amount of obstacles in returning to work, and in his daily and personal life.

That said . . . I still believe that a very large part of what made the show dramatically compelling was that Dunbar was in a profession where being blinded would automatically spell the end of his career. But, unfortunately, what I found compelling and interesting, the critics and the viewing public at large found unbelievable and downright silly.

One reason why the police procedural aspects of the show worked for me is that Dunbar -- and the writers -- proved pretty effectively that the job was 99.99% mental . . . which I guess means that a blind guy could be a homicide detective after all and we're back to square one.

Different strokes, I guess. Yeah, police procedurals do tend to be formulaic. But I like 'em. Maybe they could have satisfied both of us if we'd been given more cases that were directly tied to Jim's personal life, like the Oliver shooting.

Actually, high school teacher would have been an interesting way to go, especially with a tough inner city school where the kids would keep trying to get around him . . .

[shmeep]

maggiethecat said:

Actually, high school teacher would have been an interesting way to go, especially with a tough inner city school where the kids would keep trying to get around him . . .

Obviously, I have a lot of reasons for loving THIS idea. Has something to do with something I wrote long before I ever heard of Blind Justice...

Teachers can be blind--I had a blind English teacher in tenth grade and she scared the hell out of us--but it would be nearly impossible for a blind teacher to perform the job without help. An assistant would be provided by the district and the teacher would have to lean heavily on this person and depend on him/her for quite a lot. Also, there would be a lot of liability issues and a lot of schools would be reluctant to hire a blind teacher in the first place. If a teacher was already in place and was blinded, the school might be obligated to keep him on, but they might also just as easily find an excuse to get rid of the "problem"--especially if the teacher is not yet tenured.

I think a show with Mr. Dunbar teaching AP Physics--or something that requires a lot visually--would have been quite interesting. I would have watched.

Mags, thanks for taking the leap and even contemplating such blasphemy!

[mlm828]

I think making Jim a cop was the proverbial "double-edged sword." It brought out the naysayers and scoffers who complained it wasn't realistic and could never happen. On the other hand, so much of the drama came from the fact that Jim was going back to a job which almost no one thought he could -- or should -- do. Offhand, I can't think of another occupation or profession in which his struggle to prove he could still do the job would have been so dramatic. In the end, it was a trade-off. I suspect Bochco and Co. knew this.

That said, I always viewed the police work aspect as the weakest part of the series. This was understandable. The focus was on Jim's struggle and his journey, and the cases he worked were often just vehicles for showing the progress of the journey. In some episodes, like "Past Imperfect," there wasn't much of a case at all, and in others, like "Dance With Me," Jim's role in the case was pretty peripheral. Still, I would have liked to see cases that were grittier and more typical of what a real NYPD homicide detective encounters. And I would have liked to see more of Jim the hardnosed cop -- which I'm sure he was before the bank and still is.

[inuvik]

Just so long as Dunbar as a teacher was not a comedy. Remember Jeffrey Tambor as Mr. Sunshine?

[maggiethecat]

admin said:

I think a show with Mr. Dunbar teaching AP Physics--or something that requires a lot visually--would have been quite interesting. I would have watched.

Mags, thanks for taking the leap and even contemplating such blasphemy!

Since Cousin Bob the House Guest From Hell teaches AP Physics (God help his students -- the man is a colossal bore), I have to reject that idea out of hand.

How about Dunbar the Phys Ed teacher? I will leave you all to contemplate the possibilities while I go lie down again with another cold compress . . .

. . . and mlm88, I very much like what you said. I will respond when I'm a much less silly mood. All this baby stuff has me giddy! ;D

[maggiethecat]

mlm828 said:

Still, I would have liked to see cases that were grittier and more typical of what a real NYPD homicide detective encounters.

You might be obsessed with Blind Justice if . . . you're supposed to be working on a package of editing that has to go in the mailbox tonight and instead, a line from a post pops into your head and you just have to log in and respond.

Maybe the presentation wasn't gritty enough, but to me the cases in Blind Justice were on target with what NYPD homicide detectives encounter: a serial killer with a predilection for prostitutes; an abusive husband kills his child; a cop is killed and his body dumped; a gang-related double homicide; racially-motivated killings targeting a specific ethnic group; a bankrupt couple kill a man in an insurance scam; an old woman dies in a suspicious apartment fire, etc.

Gritty enough for me, and right off the 11:00 news.

[mlm828]

maggiethecat said:

Maybe the presentation wasn't gritty enough, but to me the cases in Blind Justice were on target with what NYPD homicide detectives encounter: a serial killer with a predilection for prostitutes; an abusive husband kills his child; a cop is killed and his body dumped; a gang-related double homicide; racially-motivated killings targeting a specific ethnic group; a bankrupt couple kill a man in an insurance scam; an old woman dies in a suspicious apartment fire, etc.

Maybe it's different in NYC, but here in California, the majority of crimes are those of the poor, almost always involving drugs, gangs, or alcohol, or some combination of these. There aren't a lot of affluent or middle-class white defendants. And most crimes are senseless and inexplicable. You end up shaking your head and asking yourself, "What were they thinking?" If there was an 8th Precinct, I suspect the majority of their homicide cases would be like that. It's also true, of course, that most of them would not make a good TV show.

[mlm828]

admin said:

maggiethecat said:

Actually, high school teacher would have been an interesting way to go, especially with a tough inner city school where the kids would keep trying to get around him . . .

Teachers can be blind--I had a blind English teacher in tenth grade and she scared the hell out of us--but it would be nearly impossible for a blind teacher to perform the job without help. An assistant would be provided by the district and the teacher would have to lean heavily on this person and depend on him/her for quite a lot. Also, there would be a lot of liability issues and a lot of schools would be reluctant to hire a blind teacher in the first place. If a teacher was already in place and was blinded, the school might be obligated to keep him on, but they might also just as easily find an excuse to get rid of the "problem"--especially if the teacher is not yet tenured.

I think a show with Mr. Dunbar teaching AP Physics--or something that requires a lot visually--would have been quite interesting. I would have watched.

Interesting -- I would have thought teaching was one profession where there might be less of an issue about whether a blind person could do it. During my first year in law school, one of my professors lost his sight quite suddenly, as a result of a viral infection. He was back in the classroom within several weeks. I don't recall any controversy about whether he could or should return. On the other hand, you could argue his job didn't have the same challenges as keeping control over a bunch of fifth graders, for example. Although I'm not sure a bunch of law students are much better behaved. . . .

Whatever the occupation or profession, employment is a huge issue for most blind and visually impaired people. I recall reading the unemployment rate among them is astronomical -- something like 70%. So even getting a chance to prove one can do the job -- any job -- is a big challenge.

[shmeep]

mlm828 said:

Interesting -- I would have thought teaching was one profession where there might be less of an issue about whether a blind person could do it. During my first year in law school, one of my professors lost his sight quite suddenly, as a result of a viral infection. He was back in the classroom within several weeks. I don't recall any controversy about whether he could or should return. On the other hand, you could argue his job didn't have the same challenges as keeping control over a bunch of fifth graders, for example. Although I'm not sure a bunch of law students are much better behaved. . . .

Whatever the occupation or profession, employment is a huge issue for most blind and visually impaired people. I recall reading the unemployment rate among them is astronomical -- something like 70%. So even getting a chance to prove one can do the job -- any job -- is a big challenge.

I think that unemployment rate is a much bigger issue than what a blind person ultimately ends up doing. Excellent point, mlm. Many people just don't want to take on a blind employee. I imagine your professor wouldn't have had quite the same issues as would a teacher working with minors. I was often the "reasonable accommodation" for Deaf ASL teachers who didn't necessarily need me to help them teach (since it was in ASL), but the school wanted interpreters there in case of a fire alarm or other emergency. When kids are involved, every precaution has to be taken and if someone were to go blind and then go back to the job, there would be doubters--particularly if the kids got out of control. I worked at the top high school in Los Angeles Unified School District and even those wealthy suburban kids would have taken advantage in a heartbeat if given the chance. The way I always caught them talking when I entered the class room when they were only allowed to sign in that class was proof enough of that.