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Post by housemouse on Jul 3, 2007 9:09:39 GMT -5
Watching CNN this morning I learned that our wonderful president has commuted Scooter Libby's jail sentence. I guess he decided to go for broke. I mean how much lower can his approval ratings go? I wonder if any president has ever had approvals in the negative numbers. There's a first time for everything!
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Post by Chris on Jul 3, 2007 9:36:13 GMT -5
You know, sometimes I wonder, what is he thinking?  Assuming that he does think??  But surely he must have advisors who should tell him what's the right thing to do and what's not - but I guess that doesn't matter if he won't listen... You've kept him around for seven years, someone please tell me that he has done something good and wise too. please?? - Chris  |
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Post by shmeep on Jul 3, 2007 9:46:01 GMT -5
Ah, a new political thread. Karma, Mouse!
I know the whole Scooter thing has made all the Democrats mad, but I was kind of glad it happened for some reason. Here's my thinking: Scooter was not convicted for being the source of the leak, he was convicted for lying about it under oath. I have no doubt that the reason he had to lie in the first place is that he was protecting someone higher up. Who could be higher-up than the vice president's chief of staff? Um...the vice president? Possibly the president, but this whole thing smells like Cheney to me. I thought all along that Cheney went after Joe Wilson's wife as revenge and then let Scooter take the fall for it when things started pointing back to him. Disgusting! I think Scooter is an idiot (what kind of grown man goes by "Scooter"--even if he's not working in the White House?) and he could have handled things much better, but he was not the target of Fitzpatrick's investigation. I think he was the bait and was being used to draw out the real guilty party. When that didn't work, someone had to go down and it was Scooter--for perjury and obstruction of justice.
I agree that Bush made his move here (despite saying he wouldn't intervene until it had made it through the courts--which would have meant it wouldn't have happened during Bush's presidency) because he now has very little to lose. He is the very lamest of lame ducks at this point. Once he bent over backwards with that immigration bill--even working with Ted Kennedy!--and was shot down by his own party and by Democrats who can't bear to see Bush accomplish anything (not that it was a great bill, but a lot of Dems won't support anything the president does no matter what and I think that's pretty stupid, when he's actually trying to work with them for a change), he came to the realization that he is now officially obsolete so why not go for broke and commute the sentence?
I notice it wasn't a pardon. Interesting.
I really think Cheney is more the villain in this situation. Once again, someone else is doing the hard thing and looking bad for him.
All last week on the Daily Show, Jon Stewart had a running segment called "You Don't Know Dick," about little-known facts about Cheney. Hilarious. Why does he need a man-sized safe in his office?
Oh, I forgot to say the real reason I'm glad Bush commuted Scooter's sentence: I know the Dems are pretending to be furious at the "miscarriage of justice," but...all it does is benefit them by making the Republicans look even worse than they did before. I think the Dems should tread lightly here. I seem to remember someone else who was the victim of an invistigation (granted, a much sillier one) and who perjured himself and was impeached for it...Republicans like to point this out. If Clinton didn't go to jail (they say), why should Scooter? The difference, of course, is that Clinton never should have been under investigation in the first place while Scooter really did have knowlege of illegal activity high up in the White House. Still...interesting comparison.
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Post by shmeep on Jul 3, 2007 9:51:20 GMT -5
You've kept him around for seven years, someone please tell me that he has done something good and wise too. please?? Excellent question. I don't know about good and wise, but I think he's been in power this long because he has the One True ring:  I work in Washington, DC and I can tell you firsthand that this is what the White House looks like these days:  Very dark times. Very dark... |
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Post by housemouse on Jul 3, 2007 9:59:59 GMT -5
I know the whole Scooter thing has made all the Democrats mad, but I was kind of glad it happened for some reason. Here's my thinking: Scooter was not convicted for being the source of the leak, he was convicted for lying about it under oath. I have no doubt that the reason he had to lie in the first place is that he was protecting someone higher up. Who could be higher-up than the vice president's chief of staff? Um...the vice president? Possibly the president, but this whole thing smells like Cheney to me. I thought all along that Cheney went after Joe Wilson's wife as revenge and then let Scooter take the fall for it when things started pointing back to him. Disgusting! I think Scooter is an idiot (what kind of grown man goes by "Scooter"--even if he's not working in the White House?) and he could have handled things much better, but he was not the target of Fitzpatrick's investigation. I think he was the bait and was being used to draw out the real guilty party. When that didn't work, someone had to go down and it was Scooter--for perjury and obstruction of justice. I would tend to agree with the theory that Scoot took the fall for Cheney. I'm pretty sure Dick would throw his own wife or grandchild under the bus if there was something in it for him. I also agree that Scoot is an idiot, anyone willing to take the fall for Dick has got to be an idiot or much worse. Cheney frightens me. I agree that Bush made his move here (despite saying he wouldn't intervene until it had made it through the courts--which would have meant it wouldn't have happened during Bush's presidency) because he now has very little to lose. He is the very lamest of lame ducks at this point. Once he bent over backwards with that immigration bill--even working with Ted Kennedy!--and was shot down by his own party and by Democrats who can't bear to see Bush accomplish anything (not that it was a great bill, but a lot of Dems won't support anything the president does no matter what and I think that's pretty stupid, when he's actually trying to work with them for a change), he came to the realization that he is now officially obsolete so why not go for broke and commute the sentence? What does it say when Bush is making decisions based on the fact that he has nothing to lose anymore? How pathetic. How sad. All last week on the Daily Show, Jon Stewart had a running segment called "You Don't Know Dick," about little-known facts about Cheney. Hilarious. Why does he need a man-sized safe in his office? That whole segment was hilarious! I laughed out loud every single time. A man sized safe? Huh? I just kept trying to picture what might be in there. I gave up because I found it too frightening. |
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Post by maggiethecat on Jul 3, 2007 12:52:43 GMT -5
What a great new thread! I'll be back when I've had time to read through everything but right now I will say that I haven't been this pissed off since Ford pardoned Nixon. What kind of message does it send to the kids in this country? Hey, you got friends in high places you can play fast and loose with the truth (not to mention the Constitution) and get off without so much as the proverbial slap on the wrist. Yee-hah! Umm, check me on this one, but wasn't "lying under oath" the charge that sent Martha off to the hoosegow?  |
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Post by mlm828 on Jul 3, 2007 14:51:05 GMT -5
Umm, check me on this one, but wasn't "lying under oath" the charge that sent Martha off to the hoosegow? That would be Martha Stewart.  And, actually, she wasn't under oath when she made the statements for which she was prosecuted. I could say a lot about the Libby commutation, but I'll simply point out that it should be a wake-up call for anyone who still clings to the myth that there is "equal justice for all" in this country.  |
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Post by maggiethecat on Jul 3, 2007 15:10:34 GMT -5
You've kept him around for seven years, someone please tell me that he has done something good and wise too. Good and wise? Ah, dear Chris, the answer to that one is a resounding NO. Good and wise are not in this man's vocabulary, and are far beyond his limited capabilities. As for keeping him around for seven years, well, he stole the first election with the help of Daddy Bush's cronies on the Supreme Court. Although few remember it now, when the Florida votes were finally tallied some five or six months after the election, Gore was the clear winner. That's called a coup d'etat.  The second election? The "Swift Boat" nonsense, a propaganda campaign of which Joseph Goebbels would have been proud, a media blitz in which John Kerry, a thrice-decorated war hero, was portrayed as a duplicitous traitor. And, God help us, there were any number of ignorant souls in this country who believed it. Not that the votes were accurately counted that time, either. Ohio, anyone? Jeez, Mags, why don't you speak your mind? Here's the thing, Chris -- so many of us in this country are deeply ashamed of the man we are forced to call President. We respect the office but not the man. It helps to hang onto the fact that there are 100 million very smart people in this country who would rather have been hanged by their thumbs than ever vote for a C- student like Shrubbie-Pooh. |
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Post by mlm828 on Jul 3, 2007 17:03:03 GMT -5
You know, sometimes I wonder, what is he thinking? Assuming that he does think?? But surely he must have advisors who should tell him what's the right thing to do and what's not - but I guess that doesn't matter if he won't listen... I am sorry to say that you are "assuming facts not in evidence" (as we say in the law biz). In the past six-plus years, we have learned, to our sorrow, that the last thing Bush and his gang are interested in is doing the right thing.  |
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Post by maggiethecat on Jul 3, 2007 17:27:06 GMT -5
You know, sometimes I wonder, what is he thinking? Assuming that he does think?? But surely he must have advisors who should tell him what's the right thing to do and what's not - but I guess that doesn't matter if he won't listen... I am sorry to say that you are "assuming facts not in evidence" (as we say in the law biz). In the past six-plus years, we have learned, to our sorrow, that the last thing Bush and his gang are interested in is doing the right thing. Assuming facts not in evidence? Heh. A very lawyerly bit of karma to you, mlm! |
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Post by Chris on Jul 3, 2007 18:00:39 GMT -5
I have no doubt that the reason he had to lie in the first place is that he was protecting someone higher up. Who could be higher-up than the vice president's chief of staff? Um...the vice president? Possibly the president, but this whole thing smells like Cheney to me. I thought all along that Cheney went after Joe Wilson's wife as revenge and then let Scooter take the fall for it when things started pointing back to him. Disgusting! That is so wrong!!!! I think Scooter is an idiot (what kind of grown man goes by "Scooter"--even if he's not working in the White House?) he came to the realization that he is now officially obsolete so why not go for broke and commute the sentence? That is somehow sad... Excellent question. I don't know about good and wise, but I think he's been in power this long because he has the One True ring: I work in Washington, DC and I can tell you firsthand that this is what the White House looks like these days: Very dark times. Very dark... In that case I suppose this is who you need to help you out  I'll talk to him if you would like me to - Chris |
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Post by Chris on Jul 3, 2007 18:32:15 GMT -5
You've kept him around for seven years, someone please tell me that he has done something good and wise too. Good and wise? Ah, dear Chris, the answer to that one is a resounding NO. Good and wise are not in this man's vocabulary, and are far beyond his limited capabilities. In a way I was actually being serious, I tend to believe there is good in everyone (though some people makes it really hard ) and even if I don't like Bush that much I thought that there HAD to be something he did right... As for keeping him around for seven years, well, he stole the first election with the help of Daddy Bush's cronies on the Supreme Court. Although few remember it now, when the Florida votes were finally tallied some five or six months after the election, Gore was the clear winner. That's called a coup d'etat. I remember that Here's the thing, Chris -- so many of us in this country are deeply ashamed of the man we are forced to call President. We respect the office but not the man. It helps to hang onto the fact that there are 100 million very smart people in this country who would rather have been hanged by their thumbs than ever vote for a C- student like Shrubbie-Pooh. I know. I'm not very fond of my government either but I have to respect the fact that I apparently don't agree with the majority of the voters in this country.  And as for your elections, it is sad that you've had all those problems with counting the votes I am sorry to say that you are "assuming facts not in evidence" ;D - Chris |
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Post by housemouse on Jul 3, 2007 21:22:12 GMT -5
The second election? The "Swift Boat" nonsense, a propaganda campaign of which Joseph Goebbels would have been proud, a media blitz in which John Kerry, a thrice-decorated war hero, was portrayed as a duplicitous traitor. And, God help us, there were any number of ignorant souls in this country who believed it. Not that the votes were accurately counted that time, either. Ohio, anyone? Now Maggie, don't forget Bush's "little black dress" also known as September 11th. He whipped that out so many times during the election I lost count. His strategy was to keep as many people as possible as terrified as possible and make them believe he was the only one to fix it. To hear The Shrub tell it that traitor Kerry would fix the situation by selling the US to bin laden. Count me among those embarrassed to admit this man is our president. |
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Post by mlm828 on Jul 3, 2007 23:41:28 GMT -5
Count me among those embarrassed to admit this man is our president. Count me in, too. One of the radio commentators I listen to sometimes refers to "the Bush crime family" -- which got me thinking. Having the Shrub as President is kind of like having Fredo in charge of the Corleone family. |
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Post by matilda on Jul 4, 2007 2:18:32 GMT -5
Count me among those embarrassed to admit this man is our president. Count me in, too. One of the radio commentators I listen to sometimes refers to "the Bush crime family" -- which got me thinking. Having the Shrub as President is kind of like having Fredo in charge of the Corleone family. Really seriously, I don't think anyone outside the U.S. blames ordinary, decent American people for W, I really don't. Just as I really hope that nobody blames ordinary, decent Australians for 11 years of the grovelling, simpering Bonsai (a small Bush, our Prime Minister). 11 years of the neo-cons, we've had - count 'em, 11. And we are also in election mode, so the place is nothing but an utter disgrace right now. It's just awful, depressing and dismal. In sympathy but nobody blames you (well nobody who's had to live here for the last 11 yrs anyway) Matilda |
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And, actually, she wasn't under oath when she made the statements for which she was prosecuted.
