2008 Election Talk

[shmeep]

I join Mags in welcoming Doobrah back. I've missed you, my friend!

As for the Hitler thingy...I always thought the current administration had that one cornered. Not the movement itself, so much, but the way they have been able to do away with our civil liberties one by one while convincing good Christian folk (like my parents) that following their political agenda was synonymous with following their Lord. THAT's scary, if you ask me. When good Christians who really mean well are convinced the war in Iraq is somehow Godly, then you can convince anyone of anything.

May 9, 2008 9:40:12 GMT -5 maggiethecat said:

I will accept your 1930s movement analogy -- and God knows the last thing we need to do in this country is vote according to crowd psychology -- if you will consider this:

When Abraham Lincoln was elected President, his "seasoning" consisted of two terms in the Illinois state legislature, experience as a lawyer and community organizer, and a reputation as a brilliant orator.

I'm just sayin . . .

Oh, Karma, Mags! I've been dying to know...not to offend anyone with differing opinions in the whole Clinton/Obama situation, but what made you turn the corner? I didn't post here for months because I knew you felt strongly about Hillary and I was afraid of stirring up mischief--or of antagonizing you unnecessarily when, as you said so well, we should all be on the same side. What did it?

My current take is that, while I used to really like and respect Hillary, I've been very mad at her for some time now. She's been the below-the-belt campaigner who has been increasingly desperate and who has stooped to some all-time lows (in my opinion). She had the gall to hint at offering Obama the #2 slot even though he was clearly #1 just so some of his borderline supporters would go for her in the hopes that they could get them both. THAT was really something, but Obama just laughed and joked about how odd it was that someone who didn't think he was ready to be president suddenly thought he was ready to be vice president because it could help her win votes. He didn't say that last part, but I was thinking it.

Has he fought back? Of course. He's just come off a horrible few weeks and has had to defend himself repeatedly from many fronts, but he typically responds by pointing out policy differences. He's kept a cool head and has responded to controversy in a mature way without ever ceasing to be a gentleman. He's a classy guy and if that makes him an elitist, I'm in.

I also think, as I've said before, that if you're going by who has run their campaign and managed their money better, he's our guy. He knew he couldn't get the big donors as Hillary could, so he decided to go to the people and to campaign in states largely overlooked as strategically unimportant by most Democrats and he brought thousands of new Democrats into the process and raised more money than anyone ever has in a political race. Keep in mind, these new voters aren't the ones being polled and they are in a lot of the redder states (places where voters aren't all that thrilled with McCain), so we may have a few surprises where we least expect them on election day. I know the polls look tight right now, but I just don't see how McCain will be able to maintain the enthusiasm Obama is able to generate when he's out on the stump. McCain certainly can't match the money and that will make a difference as well.

I can see Hillary waiting out the primaries, but I really don't think she has a shot unless something horrible about Obama comes out in the next few weeks. If that happens, we know who will be first to exploit it (if she didn't dig it up in the first place). I'm glad she seems to be toning back the negativity, at least. That lessens my anger a bit.

I'm upset with her because I so wanted to like her all along! She lost me.

[maggiethecat]

Egad! The last two times I logged on there were McCain for President ads running at the top of our board! Does anyone know what triggers the ad content we get here?

I have to take more time than I have now, Shmeep, to give you my reasons for why I turned the corner, as you say, but for now I will just say that everything you just mentioned had an impact. I also saw both of them interviewed on 60 Minutes and -- and I was still a die-hard Hillary gal at that point -- I had to admit that the contrast was stunning. She was hard and shrill and kind of schoolmarmish, and he was relaxed and funny and so at ease with himself and the questions, which were not soft by any means.

And -- not that this has anything to do with politics or who can handle the job -- when it comes to Presidential spouses I'll take Michelle Obama over Bill Clinton any day of the week. I was a big Fan of Bill all through his two terms but I think his behaviour on the campaign trail has been reprehensible. I caught Michelle Obama's stump speech one night on C-SPAN and all I can say is wow! I was channel surfing, caught one sentence, and was in for the whole forty minutes. She is amazing: funny, smart, compassionate, extremely well-spoken, and quite obviously someone who knows who she is. Impressive, to say the least.

Glad you liked the Lincoln comparison - pretty cool, huh?

[inuvik]

May 9, 2008 11:36:22 GMT -5 maggiethecat said:

Egad! The last two times I logged on there were McCain for President ads running at the top of our board! Does anyone know what triggers the ad content we get here?

Don't know, but I'm guessing active threads have something to do with it? Keywords perhaps? He has been mentioned lately.

I know geography (via IP's I guess) also has something to do with it as the ads I see are usually Canadian. The last two for me have been for "freecreditreportsincanada.ca".

[doobrah]

Ugh -- I've learned to ignore the banner ads. But I just took notice.

Mine is for a "survey" at sodahead.com () wanting to know "Obama vs. McCain - Who would you vote for?" I'm not clicking on it.

What am I missing here? Yes, Michelle Obama is very well-spoken. But she turns me off the way Hillary turns others off (I guess). There are things she has said on the stump and in sit-down interviews that have raised my eyebrows.

Remember, I'm a PR/media relations person. I know she's been prepped. But she's come out with some doozies for someone introducing herself to the public and knowing voters will listen to her and judge her husband by proxy.

I hate the the Presidential race has become a popularity contest. Who Joe American would rather have a beer with. C'mon this ain't high school. The criterion for the "election" of 43 is repeating in Obama.

If not Hillary, then what about Kucinich, who has real thought-out ideas, and Joe Biden who actually has a strategy for Iraq? It is that American could not relate to a short guy with a younger knockout wife? For Biden, is he too detailed, not beer-y enough?

I do follow the issues. I'm tired of politicians who are "for the children, quality education and low taxes." Details please? Isn't everyone for the children, quality education and low taxes?

Sorry, I'm just getting off on a rant now. I'll spare you any more (for now).

Like I said, it's gonna be a long haul til November.

[Kasman]

May 11, 2008 18:09:29 GMT -5 doobrah said:

Ugh -- I've learned to ignore the banner ads. But I just took notice.

Wanna lose the banner ads? Mozilla Firefox with Ad- Blocker Plus deals with most of them.

[doobrah]

Since this board is overwhelmingly female, I offer the following link to a Washington Post opinion piece, which may ring as true for you as it did for me. The writer says it much more eloquently than I could.

Made it a "tiny URL" for your convenience:
tinyurl.com/5hb3r9

It's about sexist attacks on Hillary Clinton and how hatred of women remains acceptable in today's culture.

[maggiethecat]

Karma, doobrah -- that is amazing and depressing and worthwhile and I urge everyone on this board to read it.

[maggiethecat]

The news about Teddy Kennedy today has me more sad and upset and moved than I would have imagined. I hope, against all hope, that he can fight the good fight, once again, and that his remaining days will be free of pain and filled with honor and grace. Yes, he is a man who has lived a complicated and at times, terrible life -- I still want to know the truth of Chappiquidick (spelling, anyone?) -- but he has also been the voice of truth and sanity in the Senate for four decades, and his work there has been exemplary. He is The Last Great Liberal, and for that I have always been happy that the people of Massachusetts kept electing him. One of the pundits on the ABC news tonight put it best, I think, when he commented that Kennedy has had more of an impact on America through his work in the Senate than he would have had he become President.

It's easy to make jokes about the Kennedys. But they have faced more than most families, and faced it with style and dignity. I don't feel like joking right now. I wouldn't wish brain cancer on my worst enemy. Everyone, everyone, deserves a better exit than that.

So yeah, cynical old Mags here is doing a little praying tonight. We need men like Teddy Kennedy, men who give their lives to the common good and put the needs of the downtrodden and voiceless before their own. I just hope he'll be with us for a while longer . . . at least until a Democrat once again occupies the Oval Office. I know he'd like to see that.

[shmeep]

I know how you feel. It was a terrible shock to hear how grave the situation is. Out of all the things that one would assume could potentially get him, a brain tumor was not one of them. Mags, I join you in the heartfelt prayers for his recovery. If this makes you feel any better, Senator Arlen Spector was diagnosed with a brain tumor years ago. He was given three weeks to live and then went on to be cured. He had a recurrence, but is still going strong. I hope Ted Kennedy is as fortunate.

[doobrah]

I, too, share your shock. Apparently it hit the news fiends hounds the same way. It was the ONLY story all afternoon on CNN.

I realize now that I have just taken Teddy for granted. Figured that he would always be there in the Senate, doing his "liberal" best to uphold truth, justice and the American way.

And as I look upon those photos today of him leaving the hospital, with that gorgeous shock of hair, I get a sad twinge that soon he will be bald as the eagle with chemo & radiation.

But as Shmeepy said, Arlen Spector rallied and I hope he'll help Teddy rally. The Kennedys have had their share of misfortune, but they've also been a shining example of a family that has overcome. As father and father figure to all those little Kennedys who lost their dads in the '60s, he will have plenty of loving support.

[maggiethecat]

It has been an historic night, and I was thrilled and touched and moved by Obama tonight. It took me a while but I'm here, on board and 100% enthusiastic.

On the other hand -- and on a sad note -- I want to just smack Hillary for hanging on, for trying to steal the spotlight, for not being gracious enough to admit the inevitable, and for not stepping down to preserve what tattered dignity remains. She's starting to remind me of the Japanese soldiers who hid out on remote Pacific islands well into the 1950s, hoarding their rations and their ammo and refusing to surrender.

Reverse the scenario: I just can't imagine Obama being so blatantly ungracious. I really hope the Powers That Be don't force him to accept her in the #2 slot. Cheesy, to say the least. Me? I'd love an Obama/Edwards ticket. Two well-spoken and well-educated men with strong and uncompromisingly fierce wives -- it would definitely be a first!

It was an extraordinary experience to watch the unofficial "crowning" of the first African-American Presidential nominee with my mother, who grew up in the South and remembers, all too well, "colored" drinking fountains and the back of the bus and Jim Crow laws. That she has come from that, to Obama, in her lifetime, is truly stunning.

PS Please God, let the man start wearing a Kevlar vest. There are just so damned many bigots with guns out there . . . .

[doobrah]

Well, I am still unmoved by BO.

Was HC's speech cheezy? Yes. Too self-serving for my taste. But that doesn't change my belief that she is the best for the job, and at this point, the only one for the job.

At this point, I'd rather see her run for NY Gov than a usually do-nothing position as Veep (Cheney notwithstanding).

I'm annoyed and disgusted and still up in the air for November.

[maggiethecat]

I agree that she would be . . . weird? . . . as the VP, certainly wasted. And if, at this point, Obama offers and she accepts the number two slot, then they'll both look like HUGE hypocratical liars and covering up with talk about bringing the party together just ain't gonna work.

And then there's the Bill factor. I just can't imagine anyone in the Obama camp wants him wandering around the White House poking his nose into everything.

[mlm828]

Truly an historic night. Mags, your mom is not the only one who remembers the "Colored" signs in the South.

To the disappointed Hillary Clinton supporters who are considering not voting for Obama in November, I would only say, "consider the alternative." A McCain victory in November means no end in sight in Iraq, at least four more years of fiscal irresponsibility, government-by-lobbyist, and the corporate welfare state, no action on health care, and energy policies dictated by the oil companies. And in spite of his age and supposed experience, McCain has the potential to be every bit as reckless as the Shrub. I seriously doubt that is what most of Clinton's supporters want for our country.

I have no idea what Obama is going to do about the Vice Presidency. Maybe he could do what another candidate from Illinois, Adlai Stevenson, did in 1956, and let the convention pick the Vice Presidential nominee. It helped unify the party in 1956, although no Democrat could have beaten Eisenhower that year. However, if Obama were to follow this course, Hillary Clinton would likely get the VP nomination, and I just can't see her and Bill as team players in an Obama Administration.

My personal choice for VP would be Bill Richardson. He has excellent foreign policy credentials and a certain gravitas, both of which might help some with voters who think Obama is too young, too inexperienced, or both.

[doobrah]

Sigh.

OK, I'm onboard. Not that BO's assuaged any of my concerns; I still have them. Just that he can't be any worse than Shrub.

And I can't vote for the old fart -- whatsisname? Shrub2?

At least that's the plan now. AAARGH!!!!