2008 Election Talk

[shmeep]

Well...I'm not at the Obama rally today. I guess I got lazy. Am I a bad Obama supporter? I just knew I'd have to wait for hours in the cold just to get in and he just now started speaking so I would have had to have waited for three more hours inside just to see him. I'm watching him now and he seems to have plenty without me so I'd just as soon see him from the comfort of my living room. *sigh* It would have been exciting to see him. There's still the Baltimore rally this afternoon, but that one "starts" at 2:30 so I wouldn't get home until midnight and I have to work tomorrow. Hillary was speaking not far from me last night and I had the opportunity to go to that (an inside source--someone working at the event) and it was tempting but I was already in my pajamas when I found out I could go and I realized I wasn't about to go anywhere. I think I'm getting old or something.

This race is veeeeery interesting, isn't it?

I really hope it doesn't come down to the Super Delegates. That would get ugly fast. I want one of them to just win the damn thing. You all know who I prefer, but Hillary gave an amazing speech at the Jefferson-Jackson dinner on Saturday. I was both impressed and inspired. Obama's speech was good too, but he went more negative on her than she did on him and then I fell asleep before the end (it was getting pretty late) so I really don't know if he redeemed himself.

I could be wrong, but I think this string of Obama wins over the weekend (and probably Tuesday in the Potomac Primaries) and then the long break before the next few primaries (the ones Hillary is currently expected to do well in) will favor Obama. He tends to do well when he's had the time to really campaign in a state so if he has a chance to have some rallies in Pennsylvania and Ohio, he might win them over. I don't know about Texas, though. Still...time is on his side. Isn't it interesting that Hillary has only won one Caucus? Obama won every caucus except for Nevada, which means his supporters have been able to talk Hillary's supporters over to their side.

Is that what happened in Nebraska, Mouse? Did you caucus?

[maggiethecat]

Naaah, you're not lazy, Shmeep -- it's bloody cold out there!

I'm about to make you and Mouse and a couple of unnamed members really happy, or at least thinking that I've finally come to my senses. Blame it on last night's 60 Minutes. Did any of you see it? Steve Kroft interviewed Obama and . . . I . . . uh. . . okay, I got it. He was relaxed and funny and for the first time I found myself thinking that I wouldn't be depressed -- or even all that pissed off -- if he got the nomination. This was followed by an interview with Hillary, and damn! she got the short end of the stick by having to be interviewed by Katie Couric, ,whose questions were stupid and lame and just plain insulting. (Jeez, what a Twinkie she is.) Hillary, unfortunately, came across as slightly desperate and a little -- dare I say it? -- stale.

So maybe, cynic and old political hack that I confess to being, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to be inspired by a candidate and to think that maybe, just maybe, once he got in office he'd be smart enough to hire the best people as advisors, which would handily negate the lack of experience thing, which is real and won't go away.

So I am now officially "on the fence."

I also talked to a good friend in VA on Sunday -- my very smart public health doctor friend -- and his take on Obama's lack of experience: "Abraham Lincoln's only political experience before he was elected was two terms in the Illinois state legislature." Damn. I should have remembered.

Super Delegates notwithstanding, it may come down to who Edwards endorses and what he does with his 20-odd delegates. Yeah, a brokered convention would be nasty . . . but, as I said, GREAT theatre!

[matilda]

Ok so we're getting consensus on the Board.

I just can't help feeling sorry for Hillary; mind you, the old political hack in me knows that these things are always a gamble.

What's your pick re Edwards' dellos BJ pundits?

Cheers

Matilda

[maggiethecat]

Edwards has to have been hurt and surprised when his old running mate, John Kerry, endorsed Obama . . . but I believe he'll throw his delegates to Obama. Let's just say I'd be amazed and surprised were he to do otherwise.

[matilda]

Well that's what it looks like from here but hey I'm relying on the Australian media, CNN and Fox. Reliability factor - mmm. BBC World Service hard to interpret in all kinds of ways!

M

[shmeep]

It's just as hard to interpret over here. We have tons of talking heads with opinions and it's easy to tell who prefers which candidate and which way the bias is tilting in each situation so I don't know that we get a lot of reliable info either. I like to just take it all in, enjoy the entertainment factor, and figure out what I think after finding out as much as I can from as many sources as I can.

I voted in the Potomac/Chesapeake/Crapcake primary on Tuesday. We were in the middle of an ice storm and it took me two hours to go nineteen miles from my job to the polling place and then I slid halfway across the parking lot once I got there, but I did it. I went and voted for Obama, telling the people there that I had come to cancel out my husband's vote. Here's the really freaky thing. I got home and watched the results come in (Maryland stayed open 90 minutes later because of the weather and traffic) and after we knew who had won everything, my husband admitted he had somehow ended up voting for Obama at the last minute. I was shocked. He had been staunchly defending Hillary to me for months, so I was actually disappointed in him for being so fickle. I still don't know what made him do it. He was unsure and seemed to feel very guilty when Hillary lost, as though he were personally responsible for it, but he's been reading a lot of articles and taking online tests to see who more closely holds his beliefs and it came to Obama so he went for it. Is it weird that I'm disappointed he dropped Hillary after all that time?

My Republican friend, Laurel, has been calling me for my take on everything. It's funny because I stopped talking politics with her about ten years ago when she told me I obviously wasn't thinking for myself, since I didn't agree with her take on things. It was insulting so I decided I just wouldn't mention any political beliefs when she was around. When I saw her at Christmas, my nephew came up and asked me who was going to be the next president. Without thinking about Laurel, I blurted, "Obama." That got Laurel started and she started asking me a lot of questions and, for the first time, she wasn't judging me and didn't seem to think I was a baby killer for not supporting Republicans. It was nice so I have decided to allow this topic to happen between us now that she is showing respect. One weird thing...she's in the military and was very very for the first Gulf War. I never discuss this war with her (for obvious reasons) but she brought it up last week, saying if she hadn't switched from Army to Air Force a few years back, she would have been sent to Iraq three times already (since that's how many times her old unit has gone). She also told me she has an ex-boyfriend who recently sent her an email from Iraq, tellling her he was about to be sent on a dangerous mission and doesn't think he'll survive. Because of that, he told her she was the one who got away and that he doesn't think the government is handling the war very well. He's one of the people in charge of training Iraqi troops and has always been a good Republican boy, so this is all very interesting. Laurel hasn't heard from him since. She's not ready to be a Democrat, but I can see this is affecting her deeply and I can see the Religious Right's hold on the Republican party weakening. Amen!

I would imagine Edwards will endorse Obama, but he might opt to endorse no one. Even if he does endorse one of them, he has no real control over where his delegates go. He can do what Romney did and tell his delegates he hopes they support whomever he endorses, but they aren't obligated to do so. They would more than likely do what they want or what they believe most of the constituants in their district would want them to do. It should all be very interesting...like everything else leading up to this election.

[hoosier]

admin said:

I voted in the Potomac/Chesapeake/Crapcake primary on Tuesday. We were in the middle of an ice storm and it took me two hours to go nineteen miles from my job to the polling place and then I slid halfway across the parking lot once I got there, but I did it.

One of the advantages of having a primary in May!

Karma for your perseverance in doing your civic duty.

[matilda]

The Saturday papers here were all about Obama.

Our esteemed Anne Summers wrote a big one for the Sydney Morning Herald (she has a regular op ed in it - broadsheet I suppose equivalent of New York Times well it would certainly like to see itself as) about feminists and women more generally of a certain generation being cross about Hillary's loss of momentum - is this your read on the ground or is this Anne Summers' take?

Other story was McCain might win? Surely people can separate personality from Party???

Go shmeep for exercising democratic right. We have compulsory voting (now there's a debate but probably now not right time given world on verge of momentous change, hopefully) so you get there no matter what.

Anyhoo I'm back to Fox, The Daily Show and The Colbert Report. Mind you it's been a cracker of a week here for Centre/Left decency but that's another story.

Cheers

M

[mlm828]

This isn't directly related to the 2008 election, but I couldn't find the "Mocking the President" thread, so I'm putting it here. The following are the plans for the Shrub's presidential library, sent to me by my office-mate:

Plans for the George W. Bush Presidential Library have been released.

The Library will include:
The Hurricane Katrina Room, which is still under construction and looks like a disaster.
The Alberto Gonzales Room, where you can't remember anything you see or hear.
The Texas Air National Guard Room, where you don't have to even
show up.
The Walter Reed Hospital Room, where they don't let you in.
The Guantanamo Bay Room, where they don't let you out.
The Weapons of Mass Destruction Room (which no one has been able to find).
The Iraq War Room. After you complete your first tour, they make you go back for a second, third, fourth, & sometimes fifth tour.
The Dick Cheney Room, in an undisclosed location, complete with shooting gallery.

Plans also include:
The K-Street Project Gift Shop - Where you can buy (or just steal) an election.
The Airport Men's Room, where you can meet some of your favorite Republican Senators.
Last, but not least, there will be an entire floor devoted to a 1/64 scale model of the President's ego.
To highlight the President's accomplishments, the museum will have an electron microscope to help you locate them.
There are no plans yet on where in the library to put the President's book.

Bringing the subject back to the 2008 election, I have to smile every time Obama mentions that W will not be on the ballot this year! ;D

[maggiethecat]

What, no copy of The Poky Little Puppy? (Shrub's favorite children's book -- I guess Wind in the Willows had too many vocabulary words for him to wrap his hurty little brain around. :

And what about that kid's book he was reading to the class when 9/11 happened and he sat and stared into space like a deer in the headlights for seven -- count 'em, seven -- minutes?

Whoever is elected, and whatever happens next year, ANYTHING will be better than this pinhead.

[Dreamfire]

(Hand over mouth laughing quietly.) I find myself unable to disagree with you Maggie. I rarely share my own political views but this man's actions spell PUPPET bigger than ten foot words. I hope I have not offended anyone, if I have, let me know.

Looking from far away and with a long term view the world and the US has come along way that we have a black man and a woman running with good chances. This fact alone leads me to feel progress is being made. A hundred years ago it woul dhave been impossible, 50 years ago it woud have made a lot of people angry, even a decade ago it would have been very different.

I raise my glass to progress and tip my hat to maggie.

maggiethecat said:

What, no copy of The Poky Little Puppy? (Shrub's favorite children's book -- I guess Wind in the Willows had too many vocabulary words for him to wrap his hurty little brain around. :

And what about that kid's book he was reading to the class when 9/11 happened and he sat and stared into space like a deer in the headlights for seven -- count 'em, seven -- minutes?

Whoever is elected, and whatever happens next year, ANYTHING will be better than this pinhead.

[inuvik]

The Alberta election again. But this is funny--everyone can get a laugh!

The Rhinocerous Party of Alberta (a satirical party) has released their platform.


2007-09-25
We promise to keep none of our promises.

We also promise to:

• if elected, we will immediately dissolve the government and call another election
• get drunk and throw money at all of our problems, not just the homeless
• make gay marriage mandatory
• annex Saskatchewan, in order to provide “living space” for Albertans and make housing cheaper.
• push British Columbia into the sea, creating new oceanfront property in Alberta.
• repeal the law of gravity
• reduce the speed of light
• provide higher education by building higher schools
• legalize pot. And pans. And spatulas. And other kitchen utensils
• make all sidewalks out of rubber to prevent inebriated people from hurting themselves when they fall down
• abolish pumping oil out of the ground. Oil is there to keep the Earth moving smoothly on its axis and if you withdraw the oil, the whole thing will grind to a halt
• abolish the environment because it’s too hard to keep clean and it takes up so much space
• end crime by abolishing all laws
• adopt the British system of driving on the left; this will be gradually phased in over five years with large trucks and tractors first, then buses, eventually including small cars and bicycles last
• make Albertans stronger by putting steroids in the water
• ban lousy Alberta winters, Albertans are sick of being God’s frozen people. It’s time to get back to the four basic seasons: salt, pepper, mustard, and vinegar.
• build giant domes over certain neighborhoods in order to keep the dinosaurs in, for example in Calgary West
• include the word “fun” in Acts of Provincial Legislatures, and Bylaws of municipalities
• use the greenhouses in Redcliff to grow cannabis
• rename the province “The People’s Republic of North Montana”, and declare Medicine Hat the capital, because we can’t think of a sillier name.
• merge with the Progressive Conservative party we don’t split the silly vote

If you liked that, you can read more at their site:

abrhinos.wordpress.com/

[matilda]

ashatan said:

(Hand over mouth laughing quietly.) I find myself unable to disagree with you Maggie. I rarely share my own political views but this man's actions spell PUPPET bigger than ten foot words. I hope I have not offended anyone, if I have, let me know.

Looking from far away and with a long term view the world and the US has come along way that we have a black man and a woman running with good chances. This fact alone leads me to feel progress is being made. A hundred years ago it woul dhave been impossible, 50 years ago it woud have made a lot of people angry, even a decade ago it would have been very different.

I raise my glass to progress and tip my hat to maggie.

maggiethecat said:

What, no copy of The Poky Little Puppy? (Shrub's favorite children's book -- I guess Wind in the Willows had too many vocabulary words for him to wrap his hurty little brain around. :

And what about that kid's book he was reading to the class when 9/11 happened and he sat and stared into space like a deer in the headlights for seven -- count 'em, seven -- minutes?

Whoever is elected, and whatever happens next year, ANYTHING will be better than this pinhead.

Dreamfire you are so very right.

And so are you Maggie.

Fingers crossed.

Matilda

[shmeep]

Okay, I’m ready for another rant. Apologies in advance for the length.

Hillary is a great candidate and is doing everything in her power to redirect her campaign and get a couple of much-needed wins under her belt in Texas and Ohio on March 4, but I just don’t see it happening for her, even if she can pull off a win or two. It just won’t be by enough of a margin and momentum isn’t with her. It’s a shame, because she really is great, but there’s something about the Obama movement she just can’t seem to combat. I watched the debate last night with great interest and I could see all the conflicting factions within Hillary’s campaign at work through her answers. I saw a glimpse of those who thought she should go negative when she made her “Change you can Xerox” line—one that seemed forced to me and something she may not have wanted to say. Ultimately, though, she let the faction valuing classiness win out when she made her last comment, saying she was honored to be there with Barrack Obama and she would be fine no matter what happened. That was great, although part of it was almost word-for-word what John Edwards said during his concession speech. Oh well.

As classy as that moment was, I don’t know if Hillary knew how much like a concession it seemed. Or maybe she did. Hard to say. It’s also hard to tell if the audience gave her a standing ovation because she was being generous or because she said she was honored to share a stage with Obama. It was the same audience who “booed” her during her Xerox comment so I don’t know how to interpret the reaction she got.

Part of the reason I was so interested in this debate was because of how Hillary’s campaign has been trying to paint Obama as unprepared and all talk and all the other things she’s been saying. She needed him to make a major gaff that would give her some leverage. It didn’t happen. I was very proud of both of them up there. All I saw was two very qualified candidates who weren’t all that different in most of their views. Almost every time one would give an answer, the other would agree with it in general and then add a few very specific aspects to it that might enhance the overall success of the policy in question. They were both prepared and well versed and impressive. Their differences were miniscule.

Here’s something I’ve been thinking about the last few days—and last night I heard someone on MSNBC say the same thing when I was half asleep so I know I’m not the only one who feels this way. I’m looking for signs of good leadership and preparedness by looking at the campaigns of both parties to see who is doing a better job on that front. There’s no comparison when you look at it in that way. Hillary’s campaign is in turmoil. People are being replaced and there are several factions who have conflicting opinions on what to do next. It’s also struggling financially. The reason? No one had a plan for campaigning beyond Super Tuesday. They thought it would be all over by then so there’s been mass confusion since then. That seems short sighted. Obama’s campaign, on the other hand, is incredibly well organized. He has an amazing organization on the ground in many states simultaneously and he continues to bring in huge amounts of money. If someone struggles to run their own campaign, they may struggle to run the country. Just a thought.

The signs behind the candidates during their speeches last Tuesday after the primaries say quite a lot. Hillary’s signs—signs obviously printed by her campaign—say “We’ve got your back Hillary.” That sounds like someone who needs people to have one’s back. It looks weak to me. The signs behind Obama that night were the usual “Change you can believe in” signs. Signs of a winner. Confident signs. I think the Hillary signs were a bad move.

[mlm828]

I only saw the last half of the debate, which began at 5 p.m. here on the West Coast, while I was still at work. I thought both candidates had their moments, but somehow Hillary seems to be in search of a consistent, effective voice. She certainly found it in her comments at the end of the debate, but at other times, I was reminded of a lawyer bickering over some legal point in the courtroom. And when she tried to take a swipe at Barack, she came across as snippy.

Much of what I saw was devoted to the two candidates' health care plans. I frankly don't care at this time about the subtle or even un-subtle differences between their plans. No president's health care plan is going to get through Congress unchanged. The more important point is that both of them are going to do something, while McCain and the Republicans think things are fine the way they are, and the "free market" should be allowed to do its thing. Oh, yeah, that's worked real well -- for the insurance industry and the drug companies.

I think Hillary would make a terrific President, and I'd support her enthusiastically if she were the nominee. But I just can't shake my nagging doubts about her electability. A lot of people, myself included, are deeply weary -- not to mention fed up -- with the debased and depressing politics of the past 25 years. Rightly or wrongly, she is more likely than Barack to be perceived as "more of the same." With McCain the presumptive Republican nominee, I think Barack offers a more clear-cut choice, especially on Iraq. I am also very much concerned about the Congressional races this fall. It is essential to maintain -- or, better, increase -- the Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress. I think Barack is more likely to motivate people to come out and vote for Democrats at all levels. Conversely, I am concerned that the Republicans who think McCain isn't conservative enough (huh??) would hold their noses and vote for him if Hillary is the nominee, but they just might stay home on Election Day if Barack is the nominee.

On another topic, the countdown clock on my "Bush's Last Day" key ring malfunctioned yesterday and showed 729 days left. Eeek! Fortunately, I was able to re-set it. For those who are interested, the correct number is 332 days.