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Post by inuvik on Jan 23, 2006 12:11:27 GMT -5
A few months ago, I took a shower with my eyes closed just to see what it would be like. I didn't cheat until I had to go into the closet for something. There is a very narrow pathway into the closet between my computer desk and bookcase. I didn't think it would sound too good if I fell and hurt myself and had to go to the hospital and when the doctor asked what happened, I said I was pretending to be blind. Whew, I'm glad I'm not the only one who has tried this! I feel better now.  I have done the shower too. Also dressing (after picking my clothes), eating, eating with chopsticks (after all our discussion about whether it would be possible or not many months ago!), and trying to wander around my house. I'm a little scared to try cooking but maybe will soon. I found it was too hard to keep my eyes closed, so a cloth around them worked better. I hope we haven't gone off the deep end here. Anyone else ever done this? Come on, own up now!!!  |
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Post by shmeep on Jan 23, 2006 12:39:40 GMT -5
A few months ago, I took a shower with my eyes closed just to see what it would be like. I didn't cheat until I had to go into the closet for something. There is a very narrow pathway into the closet between my computer desk and bookcase. I didn't think it would sound too good if I fell and hurt myself and had to go to the hospital and when the doctor asked what happened, I said I was pretending to be blind. Whew, I'm glad I'm not the only one who has tried this! I feel better now. I have done the shower too. Also dressing (after picking my clothes), eating, eating with chopsticks (after all our discussion about whether it would be possible or not many months ago!), and trying to wander around my house. I'm a little scared to try cooking but maybe will soon. I found it was too hard to keep my eyes closed, so a cloth around them worked better. I hope we haven't gone off the deep end here. Anyone else ever done this? Come on, own up now!!! I won't fess up about chopsticks, but I have tried the shower thing before. When I was a kid, I took it to a whole other extreme. I used to make my friend Laurel do it with me. We would wrap ace bandages around our heads (I guess we really didn't want to be tempted to cheat) and then walk around the block, using sticks to feel our way. We agreed that if anyone asked us what we were doing, we'd just say we were doing it for Girl Scout merit badges. I had such long-suffering friends! |
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Post by dogma on Jan 23, 2006 13:03:34 GMT -5
i think deep down,, all of us have done something like that at one point or another, i used to walk around w/ my arm in a makeshift sling
please, i do caution, though,, be very very careful when in the shower,, someone i know that is younger than me,, innocently slipped in the shower,, and died of blunt force head trauma,,
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Post by bjobsessed on Jan 23, 2006 16:57:54 GMT -5
i think deep down,, all of us have done something like that at one point or another, i used to walk around w/ my arm in a makeshift sling please, i do caution, though,, be very very careful when in the shower,, someone i know that is younger than me,, innocently slipped in the shower,, and died of blunt force head trauma,, Believe me, if I was about to fall, I would have opened my eyes. I do have a grab bar in my shower which I use all the time so I'm very familiar with where it is. I also got dressed and put my braces on with my eyes closed. I felt for the tag to see if I had them on the right way. I guess I did ok because when I opened my eyes, I had my clothes and shoes on the right way. Like I said yesterday, even though I knew I could open my eyes anytime, I did get an inkling of the challenges a blind person would face. Even if you leave everything in the same spot all the time, all you have to do is forget about one thing and down you'd go. I realize that you wouldn't forget after a while, but I did forget about a basket in the bathroom and would have fallen had I not been hanging on to the wall already. (I don't use crutches in the house because there is always something to hang on to.) It was mentally draining to some extent since I was always thinking about what was in the room and where it was. |
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Post by hoosier on Jan 24, 2006 17:53:29 GMT -5
Makes you really think! I think we have all pondered that question a time or two but I can't say I have ever tried it. I am one who tends to roam around the house at night sans light and the other evening practically fell over one of the dogs because he wasn't on his usual rug  |
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Post by Chris on Dec 30, 2006 20:01:30 GMT -5
Great story Shmeep ;D When I first watched Blind Justice I thought that they would eventually have to do a Jim-meets-a-deaf-person-story but that didn't happen  Reading your story I thought, what a bad interpreter, why make her so bad? But I absolutely understand your reasons for doing so, if the interpreter had been more competent the story wouldn't have been as interesting. I have usually no problems with voicing what the deaf person signs but do I know the feeling when your brain sometimes goes blank and you just can't make any sense of the signs you're looking at. Luckily that rarely happens and when it does I just need to take a deep breath and I'm back on track again. As for the deaf or blind question, I think I have to agree with Jim on that one, being both would really be scary. Since I know sign language already I would have an advantage, should I become deaf, but not that much really. I could of course use an interpreter right away but since none of my friends or family signs, I would still be as lonely as everybody else, socially. And becoming blind, well there is the independence issue as someone wrote, but I could deal with that - I hope - but for me the worst part would be that in either case, I would loose my job. I honestly don't know what I would do if I couldn't interpret anymore, I can't think of any job that wouldn't fail in comparison. I have also tried the closing-my-eyes-thing, not at home but riding my horse and that is very weird. I did it in the arena when my horse was walking, no trotting or cantering, but even though I know my way in there it was a little disturbing. Grooming the horse and saddling and bridling him wasn't that hard with my eyes closed though. In Shmeeps story, Jim said that he didn't get to choose and I think that that probably is for the best, you don't have to make an impossible choice you just have to deal with whatever happens to you, but the discussion is still interesting. Take care and keep smiling - Chris  |
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Post by shmeep on Jan 3, 2007 9:06:36 GMT -5
I hope the rest of you will indulge me as I get into this with Chris. If interpreting doesn't enthrall you, it's fine to ignore this, but I can't because I'm just so excited to have another interpreter on the board--and one from another country! So... First of all, thanks for commenting on this old story, Chris! When I first watched Blind Justice I thought that they would eventually have to do a Jim-meets-a-deaf-person-story but that didn't happen I always thought that would have been interesting too, but I didn't expect it to happen. Very few people think to include Deaf people in their stories for some reason, but this would have been the time for it. Reading your story I thought, what a bad interpreter, why make her so bad? I didn't plan to make her bad. I planned to make her pretty average, but it just started to work out that way because, as you said, it made the story more interesting. Also, I've seen my share of so-so interpreters paired up with hard-to-read Deaf people and I thought it would make Jimmy squirm more if that were happening in this case. I work in Washington, DC, which is pretty much Deaf Mecca here in the US, so interpreters are a dime a dozen around here. Many are quite skilled, but many are in over their heads and don't seem to realize it. They tend to do okay when they just need to sign, but with it comes to voicing, a lot of them falter and get really nervous. One of my Deaf consumers is very difficult to read and whenever I'm out, I later hear about how much trouble the substitute interpreter had trying to figure out what he was saying. I think part of the reason I stuck a faltering interpreter in there was because most people assume that communication will be easy the second an interpreter shows up and they never stop to think of how skilled an interpreter needs to be for things to go smoothly and what I wrote in my story, while not the norm, is not exactly unusual either. I have usually no problems with voicing what the deaf person signs but do I know the feeling when your brain sometimes goes blank and you just can't make any sense of the signs you're looking at. Luckily that rarely happens and when it does I just need to take a deep breath and I'm back on track again. That all sounds very familiar. Since ASL is my language at home, I tend to read people pretty well and am a good voicer, but that's what most interpreters tend to struggle with because each Deaf person has a different way of signing and interpreters have to intuitively know the meaning even if the signing looks wrong so we have to become mind readers to a certain extent. I didn't start my interpreter training until I was in my mid twenties so I will never sign or voice as well as if it were my native language, but I do okay. Now I hope no one will mind if I ask Chris a few questions about the interpreting profession in Denmark. What kind of training do interpreters have there? Ours varies, but they are trying to standardize it. Some interpreters just have Deaf family and jump into the profession with very little training. Some go through a program to get a certificate (usually takes 2 years) while others go through a 4-year program and get a degree in interpreting. We are all supposed to get national (or at least state) certification, but a lot of interpreters find plenty of work without ever doing this. Many of them can barely sign at a beginner's level and are still working (but not where I live). Currently, a degree is not needed in order to obtain national certification, but it will be before long so the profession is starting to elevate. The weird thing about interpreting is that it didn't even become a real profession until the 1970's and 1980's. Before that, there were few interpreters here. Most Deaf people just relied on family members to translate for them. For this reason, our field is constantly changing and growing so now is an exciting time to be an interpreter in this country. What kinds of services are offered to Deaf people in Denmark? Is it like Sweden? I heard that Sweden offered the best environment for Deaf people and that the United States came in second. We have free phone relay services for Deaf people, both through TTYs and through video interpreting. We also have the American's with Disabilities Act which means that interpreters must be provided for certain types of jobs and events and that accommodations must be made for people with disabilities in general. We also provide various types of education for the Deaf, ranging from residential schools (which is what my husband did) to bi-lingual/bi-cultural education to mainstreaming with an interpreter (I interpreted in such a setting for years) to completely oral education. What is the norm there? And as for the Sign Language itself, does yours widely vary from person to person or is there a standardized form? Here, there is a wide range, depending upon how the Deaf person has been educated. There is pure ASL, which has a different structure from English and which goes more on concept than on form and is more spacial than linear. Then there is PSE, or Pigeon Signed English, which incorporates conceptually-accurate ASL signs with English sentence structure. Then there's SEE, which means Signing Exact English. This means that signs are given in English that may or may not make sense in ASL. I am not fond of this. Most Deaf people here are a mish-mash of all of the above, some veering more ASL and some veering more English. My husband was raised oral and can speak very well, but then he went to a Deaf residential school and immersed himself in ASL so he can code switch and sign virtually any mode of ASL. He tends to adapt himself to the style of the people he's with. Thanks for indulging me! I just can't pass up the opportunity to grill another interpreter. Chris, you have the coolest job in the world! I figured this thread, which isn't being used for anything else, was as good a place as any to have this conversation but it can be moved to the ASL thread if this bothers anyone. |
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Post by bjobsessed on Jan 3, 2007 9:55:46 GMT -5
I for one don't mind any of this. I find it very fascinating and can't wait to read what Chris has to say.
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Post by Chris on Jan 3, 2007 12:46:17 GMT -5
Oh, I certainly hope nobody minds!! I have been thinking about asking you some of the same questions, this is indeed very interesting. But, I am a little short of time today, so I won't be answering today, but very soon... Patience my dear.... Take care and keep smiling - Chris |
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Post by shmeep on Jan 3, 2007 12:51:36 GMT -5
Oh, I certainly hope nobody minds!! I have been thinking about asking you some of the same questions, this is indeed very interesting. But, I am a little short of time today, so I won't be answering today, but very soon... Patience my dear.... I guess I can wait. I look forward to finding out how Denmark compares with the States when it comes to interpreting and I'm glad you are curious about that as well. We'll talk when you have time! |
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Post by Chris on Jan 5, 2007 15:37:34 GMT -5
OK, Shmeep, let's do this It wasn't really a profession before the 1970's here either. Like you said, back then interpreters just knew some sign language and thus were expected to be able to interpret. I don't know exactly when, but but in the late 1970's /beginning of the 80's, the interpreters working back then could take a 200 hour course by mail, mostly on ethics, I think, and also do an interpreting test, and if they passed, get a certificate. In the middle of the 1980's a 2-year-program was established and that was extended to 3½ years in 1996 - that's when I started training as an interpreter at the age of 31, so I came into this even later than you did, Shmeep. Whether you got your training on the 200-hour course, or got your certificate after 2 years, you can take a few extra classes and get your degree, similar to the one I got after my 3½ years of training. We don't have any national certification, so you don't need to have a degree or even any training to call yourself a sign language interpreter, but it's getting increasingly harder to get a job if you don't have a degree. The reason for that is, that for instance The ministry of Education who are paying for all interpreting related to education, from High School and up, requires for any interpreter to have a degree as does most other Government agencies who are providing interpreting-services. How are you employed? I myself work for the largest and oldest (and the best ) interpreters company in Denmark. Please remember, Denmark is a small country there are about 5 millions of us and about 4-5000 Deaf people. The company I work for has about 200 interpreters employed and have branches in 5 cities across the country, which means that we, so far, is the only nation-wide company. Ten years ago we were the only one providing Sign Language Interpreting but now there is 6 other companies, I think. This means that we do all kinds of interpretations, education, medical, social events, weddings, funerals, work-place-meetings, you name it and we do it!!! I think Sweden is a little ahead of us but not much (sorry, we have this love/hate relationship with Sweden, I don't want to admit that they might actually do something better than us OK, back to topic) We have free relay phone services too though really not through video interpretation yet, we have tried in the company I work for, but we're not really there yet. We don't have anything like the ADA here but we do have a good social security system so we really don't need a law like that. We have three Schools for the Deaf and I think 3 or 4 mainstream schools that also have special needs classes for the Deaf. Once the kids finish 9th or 10th grade, most of them goes to this boarding school for the Deaf for a year or two before going to High School. After the boarding school there is no schools especially for the Deaf so that means that if you want to go to High School or learn a trade, or go to college or whatever you want to do, you will take classes with hearing students and be provided with an interpreter, and as I said before, The Ministry of Educations pays for that. In general our Social Security System provides you with an interpreter when needed, I even heard of a lady who had an interpreter provided for obedience classes for her dog... The situation here is rather similar to yours. We have Danish Sign Language, also known as "Deaf Peoples Sign language" then we have a form like PSE and also a form like SEE which in Denmark is used mostly by Hearing Impaired people or those that have lost their hearing as adults. And yes, most Deaf People are a mish-mash of all of the above here too Oh, and you too, Shmeep, has the coolest job in the world  I hope this makes any sense to you, it's kind of hard to me to explain it all in English, but I hope you get it anyways Take care and keep smiling - Chris |
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Post by shmeep on Jan 5, 2007 15:58:45 GMT -5
Big time karma for that wonderful explanation, Chris! And yes, it did make sense in English. I'm impressed that you are fluent in at least three languages! Americans are way behind when it comes to that sort of thing and I'm always envious of all the young European children who get to learn other languages while they're still quite young and their brains are still limber enough to properly retain them. We don't tend to get our foreign languages until high school. It sounds like our countries are really quite similar in how they handle our professions and services for the Deaf. I don't have a lot of time, so I'll at least answer this: Interpreters can be employed in a number of different ways in the US. We can be staff interpreters, working directly for whichever agency needs our services. This is what I did when I did educational interpreting. I was an employee of the school district, but sometimes the district will use interpreters from agencies if there is a shortage. Currently, I am a staff interpreter for an interpreting agency headquartered near Washington, DC. This is my agency. I am a staff employee with them, which means they send me wherever they need me. I have been on call at one location for over two years, but once my husband gets a job, I plan to go freelance, which is another way interpreters work here. We can just contract out for specific jobs and choose from whatever agency we like. Interpreters around here get plenty of work that way and at a higher hourly wage because there are at least 10-15 agencies in the DC area alone and competition for interpreters is fierce. Also, there is a lot of video interpreting offered in this area. I have done it through my agency a few times. We do both video interpreting for phone calls and Video Remote Interpreting for people who have meetings and need to stick an interpreter in them at the last minute via computer. I haven't done VRI yet. I prefer interpreting in person. Some agencies are now starting to make it so we can do video relay interpreting from our homes whenever we feel like it. I'm going to look into that for later, but for now, I'll just do staff interpreting or freelance. Yikes! Out of time. Sorry my answer was so rushed, but I love talking about this with you. |
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Post by Chris on Jan 5, 2007 16:43:06 GMT -5
I guess it's a matter of need, when you're from a small country you have to at least know some English in order to get by in the world, you're kind of stuck if you can only speak Danish and goes somewhere else. But it is an advantage to get to learn other languages at a young age, I think it also raises awareness of other cultures, since you can't learn a language properly if you don't study the culture it derives from. I have to correct myself, we didn't try video interpreting phone calls at the agency I work for, what we did was Video Remote Interpreting. In Denmark most interpreters are staff employees at an agency like I am. Very few are employed as in-house-interpreters, usually in jobs that are part-time interpreting and part-time doing administrative work or teaching. We also have freelancers, they usually have a full-time job and do freelance-interpreting as a second job. Love talking about this with you too I have plenty of time, we are about 6 hours ahead of you which means it's about bed-time for me now, while still in the afternoon in your time-zone, so I better call it a night Nightie, night - Chris |
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Post by Chocky on Jan 5, 2007 23:30:13 GMT -5
I figured this thread, which isn't being used for anything else, was as good a place as any to have this conversation but it can be moved to the ASL thread if this bothers anyone. I'm very interested too. When I was at university I studied sign language for 2 yrs and applied for the interpreting course at the end of it but there were only 5 or 6 places and they mostly went to native signers so I couldn't really compete with them! Was quite disappointing and went on to other things but am still very interested in sign language (Auslan it's called here). We have a nationally-accredited course which you have to do in order to interpret in formal situations (court, police, doctors etc) but there are lots of people with varying signing ability who 'interpret' informally, more of a 'communication aid' I guess. Anyway, it sounds like we are bit behind you guys. |
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Post by doppelganger on Apr 17, 2007 18:22:14 GMT -5
I took my time to read through all your posts and the fanfic itself again. Although the thread is rather old (not for me though...) I'd like to post some thoughts to that: The story is brilliant! A very interesting topic and so well written... quite sarcastic at times... You totally captured the characters and of course it had to be Marty to come up with that question "Deaf or Blind?" As many of you I have asked myself that question several times but haven't come to a conclusion yet. I tried doing different things without sight. And I'm really glad I'm not the only "freak" (how Ron puts it) to practice this. I sometimes clean up blindfolded or do the dishes. I also visited an exhibition called "Dialog im Dunkeln" (dialogue in the dark), where you are in some kind of parcours with a small group of people. There is no light at all, you get a cane and you have a blind/ visually impared guide telling you what to do and where to go. That was most interesting for me. For the first time I realized how quickly the other 4 senses adjust (the most common sensation was another one's cane being whacked into your ankles...) As I already posted I went to that kind of restaurant where you eat in the dark aswell. It was easier than I had thought it would be. But only because you don't have to care if anybody is watching you. Still, there is no chance to turn on the lights or take off the blindfold like you could do at home so you just do what you have to do. With most dishes you would just use a fork and a finger but if your main course is delivered with a creamy thick sauce you don't want to get your hands into that and you start using your knife aswell... But what really made me realize I could cope as a blind person, was when me and a Canadian friend did a bush walk in rural New Zealand. It was late afternoon when we started, the sun was already going down and it became pretty dark in the woods. One way of that beautiful walk takes about 45 minutes. We knew we wouldn't make it back before the sun was gone. I had my flashlight with me but we wanted to see how long we could do without. I can tell you that same walk took us more than two hours then. After the sun was down it was pitchblack on the ground and all around. Only above I could divide the treetops from the sky. Even for that I really had to strain my eyes. My Canadian friend didn't even see the tree tops, so that was an advantage for me. We stayed close together, held each others arm not to get lost. I don't remeber how often I tripped over roots, walked into trees or dipped my foot into the nearby ditch... I recall we barely talked because it consumed all of our attention to find the path only by feeling the ground with our feet. Surprisingly we made it out of the woods without using the flashlight and withought any major bruises. That was an impressing experience for me. And for my one and only nearly-deaf-experience: That took place in NZ aswell. I drove with my car up on a hill where I knew there should be a beautiful "scenic outlook". But somehow I got lost and drove further and further into a savannah-like landscape. I stopped the car, got out and wanted to walk a little to see if I could find a way leading me to that view point. There was absolutely no sound except my feet walking on the sandy ground. No wind, no birds no nothing... That really scared the hell out of me so I hurried back to the car and drove away. I never found the outlook. So asking myself that question again: not being able to see seems less scary to me than not being able to hear. But I still couldn't make that choice... (Either way I'd still be able to do my job as a physiotherapist. More likely as a blind person than a deaf person) Shmeep and Chris: it is really interesting to read about your job! Really fascinating thread!!!!!!!!! |
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I have done the shower too. Also dressing (after picking my clothes), eating, eating with chopsticks (after all our discussion about whether it would be possible or not many months ago!), and trying to wander around my house. I'm a little scared to try cooking but maybe will soon.
