|
Post by shmeep on Jul 21, 2005 13:58:20 GMT -5
Still coming up for air after digging into this book. Not quite as thick as OotP, but still a considerable chunk of literature.
Of course I couldn't put it down, but I read with a growing feeling of doom in the pit of my stomach because of all that had been foretold. Naturally I had come to expect a death and was bracing myself. I was just hoping it wouldn't be Ron, Hermione, or Ginny. It wasn't, as we know. If you don't know, stop reading this now! Don't spoil it for yourself!
I'll admit it. I cried over the death of Dumbledore. I even got a bit teary before that happened because he had just told Harry he knew he was safe because he was with him. That got me.
As always, JKR has created a world where anything can happen and only she ultimately knows the truth. HBP is full of hints and clues, as are all her books, but I'm not any closer to knowing the truth about Snape or the exact meaning of the cryptic prophesy at the end of OotP than I was before reading the book. And now we are left with even more to ponder...was it an accident that Harry ended up with Snapes book? Did Snape really turn bad, or was he following Dumbledore's orders--even if it meant killing him? Is Harry the Heir of Gryffindore? Is he also a Horcrux, containing part of Valdemar's soul? Was Regulus Black R.A.B.? Is the locket stashed among the relics at Number 13 Grimwald Place?
There's a lot going on and now I find myself once again counting the days until the next installment.
|
|
|
Post by housemouse on Jul 21, 2005 14:15:39 GMT -5
I'll admit it. I cried over the death of Dumbledore. I even got a bit teary before that happened because he had just told Harry he knew he was safe because he was with him. That got me. It took me waaay too long to finish the last chapters because I had to stop so often and wipe my tears! I was so sad, it was like a good friend had died. I am holding out hope that Dumbledore's faith in Snape was not misplaced. I am also holdng out hope that Ginny will not stand for Harry telling her they cannot be together. BTW, I love the way JKR has evovled the character of Ginny. I'm also trying to figure out how Kreacher and Dobby will fit in. They had to be there for a reason, I'm still trying to figure out what the reason is. There is so much more to say on this topic. A friend of mine suggested re-reading OoTP then HBP, I think I am going to do that.
|
|
|
Post by mlm828 on Jul 21, 2005 15:29:47 GMT -5
I'll start this off with my theories about whether Regulus Black is "R.A.B." and the possible whereabouts of the real locket horcrux.
It's entirely possible "R.A.B." is Regulus Black. He's the only character I can think of whose initials could be "R.A.B." Of course, it could be a character who hasn't been introduced yet, but Regulus being "R.A.B." is consistent with what he know about Regulus. He was a Death Eater who tried to leave after discovering what Voldemort was really all about, and he was then killed by Voldemort or on his orders. As a Death Eater, he could have learned about the locket horcrux and decided to take and destroy it after discovering Voldemort's true nature. Regulus could have been killed, and Voldemort could have tried to kill Harry, before discovering the locket had been taken.
In Order of the Phoenix, one of the items found when they are cleaning the Black house is a large locket that no one could open. It's entirely possible Kreacher took it, and no one caught him or found the locket wherever he had stashed it.
So why didn't Regulus destroy the locket and its contents immediately? My guess is that destroying such a thing is very difficult, and few wizards have the knowledge and powers to do so. It apparently was difficult even for Dumbledore; didn't he injure his hand destroying the part of Voldemort's soul contained in the ring?
As for the whereabouts of the locket horcrux: In Half-Blood Prince, Harry et al. encounter Mundungus Fletcher in Hogsmeade and discover he has been stealing things from the Black house. What if Mundungus has (or had) the locket? If so, what happened to it when he was sent to Azkaban?
|
|
|
Post by housemouse on Jul 21, 2005 17:02:19 GMT -5
I'll start this off with my theories about whether Regulus Black is "R.A.B." and the possible whereabouts of the real locket horcrux. It's entirely possible "R.A.B." is Regulus Black. He's the only character I can think of whose initials could be "R.A.B." Of course, it could be a character who hasn't been introduced yet, but Regulus being "R.A.B." is consistent with what he know about Regulus. He was a Death Eater who tried to leave after discovering what Voldemort was really all about, and he was then killed by Voldemort or on his orders. As a Death Eater, he could have learned about the locket horcrux and decided to take and destroy it after discovering Voldemort's true nature. Regulus could have been killed, and Voldemort could have tried to kill Harry, before discovering the locket had been taken. In Order of the Phoenix, one of the items found when they are cleaning the Black house is a large locket that no one could open. It's entirely possible Kreacher took it, and no one caught him or found the locket wherever he had stashed it. So why didn't Regulus destroy the locket and its contents immediately? My guess is that destroying such a thing is very difficult, and few wizards have the knowledge and powers to do so. It apparently was difficult even for Dumbledore; didn't he injure his hand destroying the part of Voldemort's soul contained in the ring? As for the whereabouts of the locket horcrux: In Half-Blood Prince, Harry et al. encounter Mundungus Fletcher in Hogsmeade and discover he has been stealing things from the Black house. What if Mundungus has (or had) the locket? If so, what happened to it when he was sent to Azkaban? I like the Regulus Black theory. I also think it is a good point that Kreacher may have taken the locket. If Harry asked him, would Kreacher be compelled to tell the truth about it? Also, if Mundungus had the locket maybe he was the one that gave it to Kreacher. I know that house elves are supposed to be loyal only to their master but Kreacher disliked Sirius, and dislikes Harry so much, that I wouldn't be surprised if he is working some loophole. Maybe he picked up one of Hermione's hats and just hasn't bothered to mention it. Another idea I heard mentioned is that Harry is actually one of the horcruxes. I thought that was interesting, but it would mean that Harry would have to die or at least somehow be cleansed of the Horcrux. Since horcruxes are so powerful and difficult to deal with, I just don't see how Harry can have to powers to destroy them yet. That is why I think Snape is still on the side of good and he promised Dumbledore that he would not blow his cover no matter what, that is why he killed him. Regarding the portions book, now that Shmeep mentioned it I think Snape had to have left it for him. He knew it would help him get in good with Slughorn. Getting in good with Slughorn helped Harry get the memory that was so important. The book also taught him the Sectumsempra (sp?) curse that will be so useful. There is just no way someone as coniving as Snape would "accidently" leave something so valuable sitting around. Who else loves that Tonks and Lupin got together? I thought that was very cool. I also liked that Fluer stayed with Bill even with his new werewolf problem!
|
|
|
Post by mlm828 on Jul 21, 2005 17:48:41 GMT -5
The fascinating question of whether Harry is one of the horcruxes. . . . Here are my theories on that -- more questions than answers.
It's possible Harry is one of the horcruxes, but I'm not entirely certain. I wonder how Harry can carry a piece of Voldemort's soul, if Voldemort was not able to possess him (at the end of Order of the Phoenix). Perhaps there is an explanation, but we just don't know it yet. I am also wondering -- if Harry is one of the horcruxes and all of them have to be destroyed in order to kill Voldemort, how can Harry kill Voldemort and survive? (Of course, JKR has never said Harry will survive). If both have to die to destroy Voldemort, is that consistent with the prophecy? Is there a way Harry can destroy the part of Voldemort's soul he is carrying, without dying himself?
I think there may be some clues about all of this in the chapter where Harry and Dumbledore view Slughorn's memory and talk about horcruxes. Of course, some of these "clues" may be red herrings.
When talking about the possibility the snake, Nagini, might be a horcrux, Dumbledore mentions that it is dangerous (to Voldemort) to place a part of his soul in a creature that can move and think for itself. Surely placing part of his soul in a human would be even more dangerous. This would suggest Voldemort did not deliberately place part of his soul in Harry -- plus the fact that Voldemort was trying to kill Harry at the time. But perhaps the transfer occurred without Voldemort's intending it and without his knowledge.
In the same chapter, Dumbledore spends a lot of time talking about Harry's special qualities. This started me thinking that if Harry is carrying part of Voldemort's soul, perhaps being within Harry has changed it, so that it is no longer usable by Voldemort.
I'm just making this up as I go along, but that's half the fun.
|
|
|
Post by mlm828 on Jul 23, 2005 12:42:25 GMT -5
Please note spoiler warning above.
I want to add some thoughts about whether Snape is truly evil or carrying out Dumbledore's plan. As shmeep has pointed out to me, Dumbledore pleads with Snape before Snape kills him. Is he pleading for his life, or pleading with Snape to do what they both know Snape has to do?
One clue lies in the description of Snape looking at Dumbledore with "revulsion and hatred." This got me thinking: what has Dumbledore ever done to cause Snape to revile and hate him? Dumbledore kept Snape out of Azkaban, gave him a job, and trusted him when many others did not. Repaying this with betrayal is truly evil, but wouldn't Dumbledore have been able to detect this degree of evil?
There is, however, another possible explanation. The revulsion and hatred are not directed at Dumbledore, but at what Dumbledore is making him do.
It's possible that Snape has duped Dumbledore. But if this is the case, I think JKR would have described Snape as looking at Dumbledore with scorn or contempt, not hatred and revulsion.
|
|
|
Post by housemouse on Jul 23, 2005 13:39:16 GMT -5
Please note spoiler warning above. I want to add some thoughts about whether Snape is truly evil or carrying out Dumbledore's plan. As shmeep has pointed out to me, Dumbledore pleads with Snape before Snape kills him. Is he pleading for his life, or pleading with Snape to do what they both know Snape has to do? One clue lies in the description of Snape looking at Dumbledore with "revulsion and hatred." This got me thinking: what has Dumbledore ever done to cause Snape to revile and hate him? Dumbledore kept Snape out of Azkaban, gave him a job, and trusted him when many others did not. Repaying this with betrayal is truly evil, but wouldn't Dumbledore have been able to detect this degree of evil? There is, however, another possible explanation. The revulsion and hatred are not directed at Dumbledore, but at what Dumbledore is making him do. It's possible that Snape has duped Dumbledore. But if this is the case, I think JKR would have described Snape as looking at Dumbledore with scorn or contempt, not hatred and revulsion. I just have too much faith in Dumbledore to believe he would not know if Snape was evil. I just don't see him having misplaced trust. He is too strong a wizard. Therefore, I vote for the hatred and revulsion be a result of Dumbledore forcing Snape to kill him. Dumbledore would never plead for his life, he simply would not.
|
|
|
Post by shmeep on Jul 24, 2005 7:55:27 GMT -5
JKR tends to juxtapose a lot of imagery with various characters and events to throw clues our way and I tend to miss many of them or, when I find them, can't make sense of them.
During my (very slow) re-read of HBP, I just realized that Slughorn is associated with spiders. The first time is when Harry meets him and hears of his penchant for collecting people he feels will succeed. Harry pictures him as a fat spider in a web, pulling people to him. Then later, Slugworth is the one who attends the funeral of Aragog with Harry and Hagrid and then gathers his valuable venom for profit. I have no idea of what this could mean, but JKR doesn't do these things accidentally. I don't think it means he is a malevolent character necessarily, but it does stand out to me.
Another thing brought up repeatedly is Lily Potter, particularly her skill at potients and how Harry reminds Slugworth of her in class. Was Lily just naturally brilliant or did she have some "help" in the same way Harry did?
Does anyone else think Hedwig may be an animangus? Someone there to protect Harry? She probably isn't, but it could be true. And what's up with Neville's toad, Trevor? Why is he always struggling to escape? It's been mentioned in every book. Is HE an animangus?
The two-way mirror that Harry forgot he could use to communicate with Sirius in the last book is of interest to me. Why bring up such a cool magical toy if JKR never means to bring it up again? I look for it (repaired, of course) in book 7.
Sorry. No theories today. Just more questions, as usual.
|
|
|
Post by housemouse on Jul 24, 2005 8:48:49 GMT -5
Does anyone else think Hedwig may be an animangus? Someone there to protect Harry? She probably isn't, but it could be true. And what's up with Neville's toad, Trevor? Why is he always struggling to escape? It's been mentioned in every book. Is HE an animangus? . It is funny you should mention the animagus thing. Until he died, I was convinced Dumbledore was an animagus. I was sure he was Neville's toad. A wizard of Dumbledore's power could easily have been able to transform. McConagall is one, so it makes sense that Dumbledore could have been. Now if Trevor turns up dead in the next book... Speaking of McConagall, was anyone else sad that she wasn't in this book more? Every time she popped up I thought, "hmm, we haven't seen her in a while." I like that character, so I would have liked to have seen more.
|
|
|
Post by housemouse on Jul 24, 2005 10:08:03 GMT -5
I just thought of something. Maybe I am desperate, but if Dumbledore is an animagus maybe he pulled a Peter Pettigrew and transformed right before Snape tried to kill him. Maybe, just maybe, Dumbledore has jumped off somewhere and he is alive and kicking. That might be a bit of a stretch, ok a huge stretch, but wouldn't it be nice?
|
|
|
Post by shmeep on Jul 24, 2005 10:33:21 GMT -5
He is mighty powerful, but...uh...there was a body. And his portrait appeared along with all the other dead headmasters. That, more than anything, convinced me of his deadness. Now we never saw the body after Sirius died, so I still hold out a small amount of hope there.
|
|
|
Post by housemouse on Jul 24, 2005 10:57:43 GMT -5
He is mighty powerful, but...uh...there was a body. And his portrait appeared along with all the other dead headmasters. That, more than anything, convinced me of his deadness. Now we never saw the body after Sirius died, so I still hold out a small amount of hope there. You are right, it was too good to be true. I do love the idea that Sirius transformed and got away.
|
|
|
Post by shmeep on Jul 29, 2005 13:32:39 GMT -5
Since horcruxes are so powerful and difficult to deal with, I just don't see how Harry can have to powers to destroy them yet. Just thought of something that should have been obvious. Uuuhhh...Harry ALREADY destroyed a horcrux. During his second year. I maintain that the horcrux itself isn't the problem, but rather all the spells protecting it.
|
|
|
Post by mlm828 on Jul 29, 2005 15:20:46 GMT -5
Since horcruxes are so powerful and difficult to deal with, I just don't see how Harry can have to powers to destroy them yet. Just thought of something that should have been obvious. Uuuhhh...Harry ALREADY destroyed a horcrux. During his second year. I maintain that the horcrux itself isn't the problem, but rather all the spells protecting it. This brings to mind something I've been wondering about. I recall reading somewhere that JKR said Harry's powers would increase in the last two books, but I didn't really see this in Book 6. Did anyone else see it? Or not? We don't really know yet if destroying a horcrux is difficult because of the nature of the horcrux or its protective spells or both. Since JKR generally makes things difficult for Harry, my money is on "both." The diary in Chamber of Secrets doesn't seem to have had a lot of protective spells around it, possibly because of the way Voldemort was using it. Even so, I doubt Harry would have been able to destroy that piece of Voldemort's soul if he hadn't had a basilisk fang handy.
|
|
|
Post by housemouse on Jul 30, 2005 12:16:59 GMT -5
This brings to mind something I've been wondering about. I recall reading somewhere that JKR said Harry's powers would increase in the last two books, but I didn't really see this in Book 6. Did anyone else see it? Or not? I did not notice his powers getting stronger. I do think that his trips with Dumbledore in the penseive and to get the horcrux increased his confidence. Increased confidence may lead to increased powers. Dumbledore putting so much trust in Harry has got to be helping him get stronger and stronger.
|
|