The Pilot: More Memorable Moments

[maggiethecat]

mlm828 said:

If this was the department's strategy -- to put Jim in a precinct where he would have a chance of making it work -- I don't think they did it out of the goodness of their hearts. Rather, it was to enable them to say, "We told you so; we gave him every opportunity, but he couldn't cut it," and avoid further negative publicity or litigation if (or when) he failed.

Of course. Perfect. Brilliant. Give Dunbar a relatively civilized precinct (serial murders notwithstanding), a good solid squad with presumably a fine record of closing cases, and a boss with a terrific reputation. Then, if he can't cut it, there's no way Dunbar can ever make the case that he was set up to fail. Great point!

[housemouse]

After 72 hours of hell I treated myself by watching The Pilot. Here are a couple of things that stood out to me. I am sorry if some have been mentioned before, but if there is anything new here I am sure we can chew on it for a while.

When Jim walks in the squad room Tom is the first to introduce himself. Marty hangs back and finally just says his name without extending a hand. This makes it look like Tom is the stand up guy and Marty is a bit of a jerk. However, as the episode progressed I started seeing it a little differently. When the perp in the cell was taunting Jim, Tom just sat there looking. Marty is the one who told him to stop and got angry when he didn't He is the one who went up and forced him to stop. Tom just made a face. Tom also assumed that Jim would not be able to do paperwork. Then, at the end when Jim asked if he and Karen could interrogate Lyman, Tom got sarcastic with him. It was almost as if Tom didn't think Jim could do it.

As we all know, Marty was set up to be the antagonist, and happy old Tom the nice guy. But from the looks of The Pilot, Tom had as much doubt about Jim as anyone.

I also never thought about it before, but the first end of one bookend moment occurs during the scene where interrogates Lyman. Dunbar walks in, rolls up his sleeves (Eldard manages to make that incredibly sexy ;D ) then proceeds to elbow Lyman in the neck. The other bookend here would be his use of his blindness with Warren Doyle.

I am tempted to hunt down screen caps, so check back just in case!

[anna]

housemouse said:

As we all know, Marty was set up to be the antagonist, and happy old Tom the nice guy. But from the looks of The Pilot, Tom had as much doubt about Jim as anyone.

All of what you said was stated much more eloquently than I could have put it, but this was what I was trying to say about Tom when I deducted some points from him in the survivor game. I don't get that his basic attitude toward Jim's abilities is much different from Marty's. It's more that either he doesn't really care enough to argue about it or he just does not want to get involved. He will stop Marty from physically assaulting Jim or he will adopt Jim's tactics if they seem to work (both in Seoul Man), but he does not interfere in any of Marty's day-to-day put-downs.

I seem to recall - somewhere, sometime - someone saying that maybe part of of Tom's detachment stemmed from his being the only African-American detective and being concerned about his own place in the squad. What do you think?

[bjobsessed]

I always got the impression that Tom, although a nice guy, did what suited him best for the moment. His silence says more than words, but there are many times when he agrees with Marty when he's just with Marty. He doesn't stop Marty very often, if ever. I can't think of one right now. He seems to do a lot of sitting back and watching. He does say the odd this to Marty like when Marty says "Real balls of steal at the bank" and he says, "Not to bring up the past." For the most part he goes along with Marty either by his words, actions, or silence. I don't know if he ever really took a stand on the Marty/Jim thing at all. Can anyone think of something? I can't right now.

[kytdunne]

More catching-up comments:

Dunbar & his old precinct -

There's been nothing to indicate Dunbar has any difficulty dealing with people he knew/worked with before he was blinded. He even took on his old informant. Given that, there'd be no reason to request a change. Also, such a request would've indicated a weakness and/or fear on his part, something a recently blinded cop could not display and expect to win a lawsuit to be reinstated.

Yeah, I'd agree that the potential for negative publicity played a role in reassigning Dunbar. Can you imagine the uproar that would've hit the PD if they'd gotten the blind hero cop killed the first month/year back on the job? Especially if the public could have construed intentional placement to cause failure, and therefore, harm.

I'd definitely go with the PD making every appearance of playing-it-straight with Dunbar's return. And yeah - if/when he fails, there's nothing for the lawyers to hang a lawsuit on.


Kyt

[maggiethecat]

anna said:

housemouse said:

As we all know, Marty was set up to be the antagonist, and happy old Tom the nice guy. But from the looks of The Pilot, Tom had as much doubt about Jim as anyone.

I don't get that his basic attitude toward Jim's abilities is much different from Marty's. It's more that either he doesn't really care enough to argue about it or he just does not want to get involved. He will stop Marty from physically assaulting Jim or he will adopt Jim's tactics if they seem to work (both in Seoul Man), but he does not interfere in any of Marty's day-to-day put-downs.

I seem to recall - somewhere, sometime - someone saying that maybe part of of Tom's detachment stemmed from his being the only African-American detective and being concerned about his own place in the squad. What do you think?

This is such great stuff -- thanks, Mouse, for getting us all going. I have to say, I really do think it took me a while to notice how much of a . . . well, I don't know the word. Weakling isn't the right way to describe Tom. I always thought he was wonderfully laid back and non-confrontational until I started to add up all the things he could have done -- or said -- and didn't.

From the first minutes in the squad room, we're set up to think of Tom -- who walks across the room, literally extending a hand to Jim -- as the good guy and Marty the bad. But is Tom a good guy or just a wuss? (How does one spell that?!) He never steps up to the plate, does he? When Marty's at his snarkiest, Tom just rolls his eyes and gives Marty The Look. We, of course, see this . . . and Jim, of course, does not. So what good does it do Dunbar, in terms of thinking that he might have a little support beyond Karen? No good at all.

I think Tom had as many doubts about Jim as Marty, or anyone else. And The Pilot is basically the last time when Tom openly questions Jim: the paperwork, why'd you take your case to the media, etc. After that? Apart from taking Marty to task in "Seoul Man," we are led, mostly by his facial expressions, to believe that Tom agrees with Dunbar much of the time, which is why his comments in the later episodes about the gun come as a bit of a shock. (At least they did to me.) And why I was stunned when he went along with Marty on that tacky brass knuckles joke.

I'm thinking Tom just doesn't want to get involved. Whether it's because as a black man in a department with proportionately few of them he's learned to keep his feelings to himself, or whether it's a kind of passive/agressive personailty trait, I couldn't guess. But it does underscore, yet again, that the characters in this show were made of layers and complexities, and not the usual one-dimensional television cardboard.

So Tom, the one guy who never seems to go out on a limb for anyone, is the union rep? Now, that's funny. ;D

[bjobsessed]

maggiethecat said:

[So Tom, the one guy who never seems to go out on a limb for anyone, is the union rep? Now, that's funny. ;D

I'd forgotten about that. To quote Marty, I don't think he has "the balls of steel" needed to be one. On the other hand, he's probably been one for a while so maybe he's good at it. Either that or he hasn't had to deal with anything tough yet.

[rducasey]

bjobsessed said:

maggiethecat said:

[So Tom, the one guy who never seems to go out on a limb for anyone, is the union rep? Now, that's funny. ;D

I'd forgotten about that. To quote Marty, I don't think he has "the balls of steel" needed to be one. On the other hand, he's probably been one for a while so maybe he's good at it. Either that or he hasn't had to deal with anything tough yet.

Something I always notice about that "union Rep" thing, when Jim says "he's gonna need to talk to Eric again so I will meet you in the interview room" or whatever he says, as Fisk walks by Tom he grins at him. Now this is tough to see, but you can see Fisk's cheek rise as he looks at Tom and it is shot from behind. I always find this a little disconcerting coming from Fisk, but then again this is in the 3rd episode when Fisk was especially harsh to Jim. eg: "If this blows up in your face.....you're on your own."and "Make sure I am informed every step of the way" Some of his tougher comments to Jim that day.

[housemouse]

One thing I have noticed - and the first episode shows it pretty clearly - is that the writers are consistent with the way they write Marty. He is hothead no matter what the situation.

He is a passionate guy. As I like to say about my oldest son, he feels things more deeply than most people. When he is angry that a perp is saying "hey blind guy" to Jim, he gets worked up. When he is angry that a blind cop is carrying a gun he gets worked into a lather. When he feels like Jim should have caught the guy in Seoul Man, it touches him deep in his soul and makes him want to kick Jim's ass. I like that about Marty.

Tom is different. I'm still trying to figure out his M.O. For the longest time I saw him as the accepting co-worker who really wanted things to work for Jim. Now I'm not so sure. Hmmmm.

[bjobsessed]

housemouse said:

Tom is different. I'm still trying to figure out his M.O. For the longest time I saw him as the accepting co-worker who really wanted things to work for Jim. Now I'm not so sure. Hmmmm.

I agree with you. I felt the same way about Tom at first. The more I think about it though, the more I'm not so sure. I still think Tom doesn't have the guts to say what he really thinks and doesn't like to make waves like Marty so he just kind of goes with the flow.

[hoosier]

maggiethecat said:

anna said:

I think Tom had as many doubts about Jim as Marty, or anyone else. And The Pilot is basically the last time when Tom openly questions Jim: the paperwork, why'd you take your case to the media, etc. After that? Apart from taking Marty to task in "Seoul Man," we are led, mostly by his facial expressions, to believe that Tom agrees with Dunbar much of the time, which is why his comments in the later episodes about the gun come as a bit of a shock. (At least they did to me.) And why I was stunned when he went along with Marty on that tacky brass knuckles joke.]


I was also taken aback by his attitude later. Watching the Pilot again the other day, I noticed how Tom was the one who jumped at the idea of Karen and Jim questioning Lyman :"I knew that was comin'! Jim broached the subject of them having a stab at Lyman but it was Karen who really pushed that they had the right to have a shot. Wonder why Jim didn't push it? Because he anticpated their reaction since Fisk had already accused them , actually him, of being a "gloryhound"? Tom was also the one who pointed out to Karen that Jim almost got her killed. Looks like though he was willing to give Jim a chance, it would be on a very short leash!

[hoosier]

I don't know if I would term this a memorable moment but it does raise a question, at least in my mind. In another board, I happened to see a posting where someone made fun of RE seeming to fumble with his cane before Karen offered her arm as they were going to Lynn and Paula's apartment. They said, since the character had been blind for at least a year, the cane and its operation would be old hat. I feel that Jim was self-conscious and that caused him to fumble as he was opening it. Having to open his cane and actually use it in front of Karen--none of them had even see him with one--t was in his satchel with his computer and I am very sure never saw the light of day. I mean, he made an effort to get to work early the next morning to map the squad room before anyone came in. I don't think he was embarassed, it was just a clearly obvious emblem of his disability, one he didn't want to have to use on the job if not absolutely necessary.

[mlm828]

GB's story, "A Nervous Wreck," got me thinking again about the scene after Jim comes home on his first day. I always thought that Christie seemed very tentative when she first came into the kitchen and spoke to Jim:



Later in the scene, she says she's been "walking on eggshells," and it seems she doesn't know how he's going to react to anything she says or does. If he had been reacting unpredictably, that would explain why she was so tentative when he came home that evening. I think she really was "a nervous wreck" that evening.

[rducasey]

I think GB's story did allow me to see Christies POV the night of the fight. I'm sure she was a 'nervous wreck' all day, worrying about how Jim's day was going. When he came into the kitchen, he did not respond to her calling his name right away. When he said, he was working a case and she said "they put you on a homicide your first day" I think it was just her surprise that he would be back into field duty on this very first day; a day that she may have imagined as just filling out paper work, meeting a new partner, getting acclimated to the squad, etc. I don't think she was doubting his abilities but rather that her fears were being realized so soon, and he jumped on that comment by saying "you know, I had people doubting me all day and I don't need that when I come home." That's where the trouble started. Then everything went downhill. He was as much at fault for the way the conversation turned. Had he been a little less on the defensive, the evening may have been saved. It just escalated from there. Thanks GB for giving us so much to think about with your story.

[mlm828]

Getting back on topic ( ), here are some more thoughts on this scene that has so much packed into it. The writers didn't have a lot of scenes to use to show us Jim and Christie's relationship, so they had to put a lot into each one. This scene is especially important, because it's the first to give us a real look at their relationship, and it sets the "baseline" for their relationship.

I think this scene was intended to show us the pattern of Jim and Christie's communication or, more accurately, failure to communicate for the past year, and probably longer. She tries to get Jim up to open up to her, to "let her in," and when he doesn't, she lashes out in frustration. We can only imagine how many times a scene like this has played out, but I'm sure it has -- many times.

Even though this kind of exchange has probably been happening pretty regularly, everything is magnified on the day Jim goes back to work. Christie seems to think that, once Jim goes back to work, he'll once again let her in, but it doesn't happen. Jim is understandably stressed out and probably exhausted when he gets home. Christie has probably been worrying all day, possibly about his physical safety, and certainly about how the day went and how he was treated by his new boss and co-workers. (I'm sure both of them knew there were many cops in the department who would not welcome Jim as a colleague). So she really wants to know how his day went, and he doesn't want to have a conversation. Her bitter comment, that they're back to "business as usual," seems to sum up how she sees things.

Going back to my earlier post, it seems kind of sad to me that, after five years of marriage, she would be so tentative about asking him how his day was.