The Pilot: More Memorable Moments

[maggiethecat]

Great discussion -- sorry I haven't weighed in sooner.

Here's something I'd like to throw on the table. Of course, one of the things I loved about Blind Justice was that the characters were not only complex, but unpredictable, some more so than others. As regards Miz Dunbar, I never was sure which way she was going to jump. And maybe this was a pattern, of sorts, established in The Pilot. The first glimpse we have of her is that very first morning: she's loving, she's supportive, she's clearly nervous for Jim on his first day back. Very likeable. But when he comes home that night? Woof! She's all over him, not backing down, trying to goad him into telling her the truth about his day, pushing him to open up. Couldn't she tell he was drained and tense as hell? Maybe that's why I still think his "This is incredible. You're gonna do this now? You're gonna do this today?" is absolutely the appropriate reaction.

Is this a pattern in terms of scenes? Good Christie/Bad Christie. Warm Christie/Icy Christie. Good cop/bad cop!

She's not exactly consistent, is she? Which I suppose made her interesting . . . but also frustrating.

[mlm828]

At the risk of oversimplifying, I always thought it came down to two people who had been through a lot in the preceding year, who had pre-existing, unresolved problems in their marriage, and who probably didn't communicate very well to begin with. Put all of those things together with his first day back at work, which had to be very stressful for both of them, and a scene like that in the kitchen was probably inevitable. I don't think either one of them is to blame. They're just two people trying to deal with a difficult situation, and not succeeding very well at this point.

[kytdunne]

mlm828 said:

Even though this kind of exchange has probably been happening pretty regularly, everything is magnified on the day Jim goes back to work. Christie seems to think that, once Jim goes back to work, he'll once again let her in, but it doesn't happen.

I always figured it was Christie's *hope* that blindness had somehow changed Dunbar and he'd be more open with her now. The fact that she griped about Dunbar being "all about the job" and then had to agree that that hadn't changed....

I tend to think she's still trying for some idealized view of who she thinks Dunbar *ought* to be. Not who he is.

Kyt

[housemouse]

maggiethecat said:

Great discussion -- sorry I haven't weighed in sooner.

Here's something I'd like to throw on the table. Of course, one of the things I loved about Blind Justice was that the characters were not only complex, but unpredictable, some more so than others. As regards Miz Dunbar, I never was sure which way she was going to jump. And maybe this was a pattern, of sorts, established in The Pilot. The first glimpse we have of her is that very first morning: she's loving, she's supportive, she's clearly nervous for Jim on his first day back. Very likeable. But when he comes home that night? Woof! She's all over him, not backing down, trying to goad him into telling her the truth about his day, pushing him to open up. Couldn't she tell he was drained and tense as hell? Maybe that's why I still think his "This is incredible. You're gonna do this now? You're gonna do this today?" is absolutely the appropriate reaction.

Is this a pattern in terms of scenes? Good Christie/Bad Christie. Warm Christie/Icy Christie. Good cop/bad cop!

She's not exactly consistent, is she? Which I suppose made her interesting . . . but also frustrating.

Let me begin by saying that if I were in that room when Mis Dunbar hassled our beloved Jim, I would have smacked her. Now, on to my post.

Christie is consistently a narcissist. Let's be honest here, Christie plays for Christie. She must have had a very tough year having to be concerned for her brave husband injured protecting civilians in a bloody shoot out. Can you imagine? One so used to have the spotlight shine right on her, having to put up with being married to a hero? I can almost see her behind Jim's back as people are talking of his bravery, she's rolling her eyes, and mouthing "Blah blah blah. Have you seen my new shoes?" Its Christie's world, we're all just living in it, it must have been a rude awakening for her when she realized that wouldn't be the case, at least for the time being.

So, Jim is back on the job. He has had his time in the limelight, now he is just a working schmo, Christie can be queen again. Just in case he gets cocky and wants some of that spotlight, Christie pounces as soon as he gets home. She has to remind him who's boss and what this marriage is really all about. Kudos to Jim for calling her on it. She may have been concerned as he trotted of for work, but maybe it was because she did not want to be relegated to the role of grieving, faithful wife again.

A little harsh? Maybe. Good fodder for discussion? Hopefully.

[greenbeing]

On Jim's intentions when he left cover to take Terry's weapon to shoot the gunman:

Jim is out of bullets.
Terry hasn't been shooting like a maniac, so he probably has bullets. (Not saying Jim's a maniac, it just sounds good.)
Gunman is out of bullets. And just standing there, dropping his AK-47. Hasn't yet reached for the second gun. (Unless I'm remembering wrong, which could very well be.)
Jim has plenty of time to yell at Terry to take the shot.

Why? The man is currently unarmed. They probably don't even realize he has a second weapon. Now yes, admittedly he's been shooting cops left and right, but wouldn't it be better to bring him in alive? Isn't shooting him here a little vindictive?

Okay, okay, I'd probably shoot him, too. But that means Jim's first intentions aren't as much to save himself and Terry and any innocent bistanders, but more along the lines of "you bastard, you're going down."

If Jim hadn't decided to kill the man, could he have run over, tackled the guy, and handcuffed him? If so, maybe that's part of the reason he shunned the hero label, if he could have taken the gunman down in the time it took to yell at Terry and run over for his gun.

Then again, my timing in remembering the minute details has been off before. But the discussion about whether or not Terry had a clear shot raised, to me, the question of whether or not this situation may have been able to end in a less violent fashion.

--GB

[maggiethecat]

greenbeing said:

Now yes, admittedly he's been shooting cops left and right, but wouldn't it be better to bring him in alive? Isn't shooting him here a little vindictive?

If Jim hadn't decided to kill the man, could he have run over, tackled the guy, and handcuffed him? If so, maybe that's part of the reason he shunned the hero label, if he could have taken the gunman down in the time it took to yell at Terry and run over for his gun.

--GB

Uh . . . how many men has the gunman killed at this point? Killing a cop in New York State once was an automatic trip to the gas chamber -- the death penalty goes on and off the books, but still, this man had to know the minute he killed a cop his life was essentially over. Does he look like someone you could just tackle and handcuff, clad in full Kevlar? End in a less violent fashion? Uh, no. Not even an option.

As for Jim "shunning the hero lable," I don't think he so much shunned it, as he was embarrassed by it being constantly mentioned. I think you can easily infer from his line to Fisk about "taking a bullet for four cops" that he was proud of ending a horrific situation, therefore saving lives. I just think he didn't want it brought up all . . . day . . . long.

[greenbeing]

I'm not saying the gunman's not going to put up a fight. He's definitely not going down easily because he's going to die either way. Either one of the cops is going to shoot him, or he's going to death row. I'm just throwing out the idea that perhaps Jim didn't need to kill him. If he'd gone after the gunman, maybe even Terry could have stepped up as back-up.

"Terry, he's empty--take the shot, Terry." Maybe Terry thought he had a moment to collect himself--the gunman's out of bullets. I'm not excusing Terry's actions, but if they didn't know about the second gun--what if he hadn't had a second gun? Hmm.

Maybe Terry was thinking, well, he's empty, and I just saw a guy get killed, a guy I was helping to safety, so I'm going to take a moment to ruminate on my guilt over that, because we're no longer in immediate danger. We don't need to shoot an unarmed man, and he's going to have a hell of a time in jail where all the corrections officers are going to beat him daily until he dies. Plenty of time...

Just playing Devil's Advocate here.

--GB

[hoosier]

maggiethecat said:

Uh . . . how many men has the gunman killed at this point? Killing a cop in New York State once was an automatic trip to the gas chamber -- the death penalty goes on and off the books, but still, this man had to know the minute he killed a cop his life was essentially over. Does he look like someone you could just tackle and handcuff, clad in full Kevlar? End in a less violent fashion? Uh, no. Not even an option.

I agree. Once his attempted heist went south, there was no turning back. I mean, to even consider robbing a bank/armored car takes planning and guts. Hmmm, wonder if there was more than one man in on it??? It would seem like at least a two man job since armored cars have a driver and a guard in the rear. Anyway, the robber had body armor and an AK-47 with who knows how many clips plus at least one handgun. I think he meant to go out in a blaze of glory. And that guy looked like a man mountain! I don't think Jim could have taken him down even with backup!

As to Christie, she told Jim that she had hoped that once he got back to work that "maybe you would let me back in" but that it was "business as usual". What is a "normal" life for the Dunbar's? They obviously don't communicate. They almost seem to have lived two separate lives, both seemingly dominated by work. Jim had an affair which speaks volumes as to the state of their relationship. So what did she expect? Was she expecting him to be disappointed and disillusioned with work and she would be there to support and comfort him? That his blindness, like Kyt said was some magic cure-all? That somehow all their problems would disappear?

[Dreamfire]

A quick question of dialogue, Can anyone hear the lines clearly in the pilot when Lyman goes for the gun and Jim get's him up against the wall. I cannot make out the lines
before " You're gong to do some time,there is no way around that...."

[Eyphur]

ashatan said:

A quick question of dialogue, Can anyone hear the lines clearly in the pilot when Lyman goes for the gun and Jim get's him up against the wall. I cannot make out the lines
before " You're gong to do some time,there is no way around that...."

I think Dunbar says, "I suggest you start thinking of ways you can make this situation less painful."

[Dreamfire]

mlm828 said:

maggiethecat said:

Watched it again and you're dead right. Let's say it now, all together: Absolutely right. Fisk does exactly what you're not supposed to do -- grab a blind person and start pulling. He gets Jim by the arm and heads out, not even watching to see where Jim is going but looking straight ahead. So of course Dunbar bashes into Karen's desk. One of those little moments we can watch dozens of times and still see something we'd not seen before.

If you didn't initially see what Fisk did, it may be because no one in the squad room did, either. All they saw was what they expected to see: the blind guy running into a desk within the first five minutes after his arrival.

I never thought of that before reading your post. I assumed they had seen it, but if some viewers missed then maybe they did too. Which means they are less of a bunch of cads than they looked to me.

[mlm828]

ashatan said:

mlm828 said:

If you didn't initially see what Fisk did, it may be because no one in the squad room did, either. All they saw was what they expected to see: the blind guy running into a desk within the first five minutes after his arrival.

I never thought of that before reading your post. I assumed they had seen it, but if some viewers missed then maybe they did too. Which means they are less of a bunch of cads than they looked to me.

I didn't see this scene as showing the other detectives as "cads," as much as showing their stereotyped thinking about blindness. In this instance, they saw the blind guy running into a piece of furniture and assumed it happened because he couldn't see, not because a sighted person dragged him into it.

Edited to add: In other words, they expect the blind guy, not their boss, to be the problem, so that's what they see.

[maggiethecat]

Excellent observation, mlm88. As witness Karen's eye-rolling "Oh, Jeez, just look at this guy, will ya?" expression when Dunbar bashes into the desk. Almost -- almost -- made me dislike her, if only for a moment.

[greenbeing]

Looks like BJObsessed and I were working on caps for the same scene at the same time... Lucky for us, most of them are completely different! There's 350 in the Pilot now.

Just for fun, like a flip-book: the hallway, the kitchen.

[greenbeing]

Wonder if the cinematographer added a little here?

"Can I suggest something?" (Jim, sticking his own neck out.)

"Let me and Karen take a shot." (The closest they've been to being partners this eppie.)


"We deserve a shot." (Watch the slowly disappearing Jim.)




And here's Jim again. Karen's worried, he's awfully close to smug. (Don't tell Marty.)


I really like this sequence for what it shows us about their partnership. Jim's out on his own, drags Karen in, gets shot down, so Karen sticks her own neck out, also on her own. And I love how uncertain she is at the end, and how satisfied he looks.

--GB