The NYC

[carl1951]

inuvik said:

bjobsessed said:

Thanks ;D

Hey people--what's with all the eastern locations?

Go West, Young Man, Go West

Inuvik: We Go West. Upper Westside Central Park.

You are always welcome, as far as I'm concerned, to join us on our low cost, high class excursions. The more the merrier.l

Later, Carl

[Dreamfire]

bjobsessed said:

Taking a break from Ron for a minute, one thing that struck me was all the homeless people we saw in the street or down in the subway. I know there is a lot of that in a big city and that it may not be much for some of you to see, but for me it was. One lady even came on the subway and went from car to car explaining her situation hoping for some kind of handout. Part of me wonders if they are all really homeless and the other part of me wants to help them out. Dogma gave one old guy some crackers because that's all we had. She said she doesn't mind giving them food but would never give them money. I agree since at least you know they can't waste it on alcohol or anything else.

I couldn't help thinking that but for the grace of God go anyone of us. I don't know anyone who is homeless, but I do know people who struggle a great deal and have absolutely no extra money. Family members do not help at all. A lost job can lead to other problems that can lead to loss of a house and before you know it maybe you're out on the street too.

I'm just a little more thankful for a nice warm house to live in--and a job too. I cetainly don't make a lot of money at it, but it's a job and I enjoy it.

I know whatyou mean O,

I wasliving in LA and did a business trip to New York in 86 or 87. I was there for a few weeks and seriously considering moving. One night we went to an awards ceremony ina really swanky place, getting out of the limo in heels, diamonds and fluff, I noticed a man lying on the sidwalk in front of the car, he looked really bad. I went to find out what was going on and the driver stopped me. "'Mam you don't wanna see that." Next thing I heard the man onthe ground gasping like he was dying. "I'll take care of it."

I was being called and so, with only a backward look and the trust that the driver would take care of thisman I went in.

When I came back out the driver told met he man had died and the cops had taken him away.

BUt seriously, people had walked past, seeing nothing, doing nothing. This old man died in front of wittnesses who saw him as less than rubbish. That was nail in the cofin #1. as far as me moving permenantly to NYC.

[inuvik]

That's awful Natasha!

The city where I live does a homeless count every 2 years. It includes homeless and people in shelters. It doesn't include people in campgrounds, or couch surfers though.

This year's count was done in May and the result released just a few weeks ago. We are up 32% over 2004. The problem is just getting worse and worse.

A good discussion starter, BJO and Dogma. I have absolutely no problem giving homeless people money. I think it is very empowering for them to have cash to spend as they wish. If they choose to "waste" it on alcohol or whatever they want, they should have that right.

I know this is more extreme, but that argument to me is the same as the argument that people on welfare, or food stamps, or whatever, should not be allowed to purchase potato chips, or chocolate bars, etc.

The key is education, not control. It is important to learn to make good choices in both cases, and to do that, you need to be allowed to make "mistakes. "

[inuvik]

carl1951 said:

inuvik said:

Hey people--what's with all the eastern locations?

Go West, Young Man, Go West

Inuvik: We Go West. Upper Westside Central Park.

You are always welcome, as far as I'm concerned, to join us on our low cost, high class excursions. The more the merrier.l

Later, Carl

That's nice of you Carl! I'd love to, if funds and time ever permit. Very far for me though. Karma!

[maggiethecat]

inuvik said:

I have absolutely no problem giving homeless people money. I think it is very empowering for them to have cash to spend as they wish. If they choose to "waste" it on alcohol or whatever they want, they should have that right.

I know this is more extreme, but that argument to me is the same as the argument that people on welfare, or food stamps, or whatever, should not be allowed to purchase potato chips, or chocolate bars, etc.

The key is education, not control. It is important to learn to make good choices in both cases, and to do that, you need to be allowed to make "mistakes. "

All very true, but one of the major contributing factors to homelessness in New York City is a series of legal decisions over the past 20 years that essentially emptied mental hospitals onto the streets. Not the easiest thing to "educate" a population of the seriously mentally ill who, when on the streets, are definitely off their meds and by choice. Also, the alternative for most of these poor souls is city-run shelters, which are hellish and crime-ridden at best. I'm all for giving homeless people money, if for no other reason than it lowers their desperation, and the desperate things people do to get a fix or a drink or whatever they need to make it through the next five minutes.

[bjobsessed]

So true about the mental hospitals. Some of the people we saw were obviously mentally ill. I still have a problem giving them too much money because they need food to live, but that's why we are all different. Some will give them money to do with as they please and others, like me, will give them the food they also need to make it from day to day.

[mlm828]

maggiethecat said:

,All very true, but one of the major contributing factors to homelessness in New York City is a series of legal decisions over the past 20 years that essentially emptied mental hospitals onto the streets.

The same is true where I live, and I think in most areas of the country. The idea was that people would no longer be institutionalized but would still get the help they needed. Unfortunately, only the first part of that ever happened. The politicians were happy to shut down the mental hospitals, but they never provided adequate funding for community-based programs in their place. So we went from institutionalizing the mentally ill to throwing them out on the streets.

On the issue of giving people money, the cynic in me has to add a word of caution. The person you see on a street corner with a sign asking for money may not be a homeless person at all. There are people who make their living this way. That is why I choose to give my money to one of the excellent programs for the homeless in my city, so I know my money is going to the people who really need it.

[dogma]

bjobsessed said:

So true about the mental hospitals. Some of the people we saw were obviously mentally ill. I still have a problem giving them too much money because they need food to live, but that's why we are all different. Some will give them money to do with as they please and others, like me, will give them the food they also need to make it from day to day.

one observation i made in nyc was: you can't tell anymore if a person is talking to themselves,, or into their ear thingy ( bluetooth?)

[maggiethecat]

mlm828 said:

On the issue of giving people money, the cynic in me has to add a word of caution. The person you see on a street corner with a sign asking for money may not be a homeless person at all. There are people who make their living this way. That is why I choose to give my money to one of the excellent programs for the homeless in my city, so I know my money is going to the people who really need it.

Oh, mlm88, you are sooooo right! In my defense -- and so I seem neither gullible nor naive -- I forgot to add that you do look very carefully at the homeless person you give money to in New York City. (I've seen so-called "Blind Vietnam Veterans" hailing cabs with no sign of disability whatsoever. Es verdad.) You don't engage these people directly, as they are for the most part seriously disturbed individuals and not in the least predictable. (Some have been known to push people under subway trains and no, I'm not making this up.) I will drop money in a cup if that's on offer and if the person looks genuine or sympathetic.

I actually prefer to give my spare money -- now, there's a concept -- to the musicians who play in the subways. It's a city-wide program for which they have to audition, and many are graduates of the city's better music schools and trying to make a living. I have a fully developed social conscience, thank you, but given the choice between a talented musician and a homeless person? My money goes to the musician every time. What can I say? I'm a sucker for musicians.

[bjobsessed]

mlm828 said:

maggiethecat said:

,All very true, but one of the major contributing factors to homelessness in New York City is a series of legal decisions over the past 20 years that essentially emptied mental hospitals onto the streets.

The same is true where I live, and I think in most areas of the country. The idea was that people would no longer be institutionalized but would still get the help they needed. Unfortunately, only the first part of that ever happened. The politicians were happy to shut down the mental hospitals, but they never provided adequate funding for community-based programs in their place. So we went from institutionalizing the mentally ill to throwing them out on the streets.

On the issue of giving people money, the cynic in me has to add a word of caution. The person you see on a street corner with a sign asking for money may not be a homeless person at all. There are people who make their living this way. That is why I choose to give my money to one of the excellent programs for the homeless in my city, so I know my money is going to the people who really need it.

That is exactly why I prefer to give them a little bit of food.

[inuvik]

dogma said:

one observation i made in nyc was: you can't tell anymore if a person is talking to themselves,, or into their ear thingy ( bluetooth?)

Karma for this! I find this all the time, it always gives me a laugh!

[dogma]

firstly: i tried as i might to size these correctly,, so if someone can make them the appropriate size,, thanks


ronald's sojourn continues:





the first stop was to take Miss Anita to the bus station
he was waving a tearful goodby thru the window
and anita was kissing him through the glass ( if you look closely, you might see her lips smearing the glass )
he was so grateful to her and the others for this wonderful new life, he would miss her deeply

so,,he got the brilliant idea that he would hitch a ride on the front of the bus,,save his little wings,, and he would have a primo seat of seeing the sites along the way



but alas.. the busdriver must of been the same one that dogma and eypher had on the way to buffalo. the driver was too distracted eating her snacks and talking on her cell phone to pay close attention to the road
and,, wouldn't you know, there was a driver coming the wrong way on the interstate, and the bus driver had to slam on her brakes


oh no !! grilled duck!! poor ronald,, now what will he do? how badly is he hurt? will he be treated at a hospital without health insurance?

[bjobsessed]

That is great! Love the picture of him in the front of the bus. I didn't even see you do that!

[hoosier]

bjobsessed said:

Here we are in front of the NY Library giving the future librarian tips on how to do her job.



Just had to relay this little anecdote about what went on at work yesterday. I work in a Carnegie library with a large sweeping staircase out front. Well, after closing, the janitor informed me that there were some kids on the stairs sitting on their bikes. Okay. I go to see and find one right at the front door on his bike ready to take off down the steps. One was on the landing and the third on the sidewalk. I told them to please not ride their bikes on the stairs as we didn't want anyone getting killed. The things you have to put up with!

[carl1951]

mlm828 said:

maggiethecat said:

,All very true, but one of the major contributing factors to homelessness in New York City is a series of legal decisions over the past 20 years that essentially emptied mental hospitals onto the streets.

The same is true where I live, and I think in most areas of the country. The idea was that people would no longer be institutionalized but would still get the help they needed. Unfortunately, only the first part of that ever happened. The politicians were happy to shut down the mental hospitals, but they never provided adequate funding for community-based programs in their place. So we went from institutionalizing the mentally ill to throwing them out on the streets.

On the issue of giving people money, the cynic in me has to add a word of caution. The person you see on a street corner with a sign asking for money may not be a homeless person at all. There are people who make their living this way. That is why I choose to give my money to one of the excellent programs for the homeless in my city, so I know my money is going to the people who really need it.

And all those empty mental institutions are now very, very high-priced condos. So what was the real reason for emptying the institutions? Ans: Money and location, location, location.
Altruistic? Ans: No way; No how.

Later, Carl