2008 Election Talk

[Colorado girl]

I think that McCain made a big mistake when he chose Sarah Palin as a running mate. If people think that Obama has no experience, why would they vote for a woman ( a hockey mom as they keep saying) as a heartbeat away from the commander in Chief. I wasn't a real Hillary fan before but I thought her speech was so brilliant last week. I also was in awe that Obama was giving such an incredible speech just miles away from where I live!!! I don't think that the Dems have to go much on the attack. The republicans have done the work for them.

[matilda]

Understand shmeep and it's always so hard to know whether or not we should be on the attack or taking the middle ground ...

I suppose that's what we have professionals for!

With you mlm on the gender thing but right now I just couldn't give a rodent's who the candidate is (a drover's dog, as was once famously commented here) would be better than what we have.

Go you Democrats - thinking of you all day, every day

M

[mlm828]

I have been wondering about the reaction to Palin's selection in her home state of Alaska. Here is one Alaskan's reaction.

It occurs to me that the selection of Palin makes McCain's age a huge issue in the campaign, even if no one ever mentions it. All the Democrats have to do is remind people Palin is the proverbial "heartbeat away" from the Presidency.

Aug 23, 2008 17:14:05 GMT -5 shmeep said:

Anyone who can describe Guiliani as only being able to construct sentences using "a noun, a verb, and 9/11" is okay with me.

McCain seems to be as incapable of uttering a sentence that doesn't refer to his POW experience as Guiliani is of uttering one that doesn't refer to 9/11. At least we were spared Rudi.

[maggiethecat]

Karma for your tart and thought-out observations as always, mlm.

Yeah, I've got plenty to say, I've just been on deadline.

My first observation about Sarah Palin is pretty shallow and that is, with that ridiculous teased French knot hairdo and her odd harlequin-like glasses, she looks like one of the secretaries on "Mad Men."

Seriously, I am thrilled with her selection. She's everything a good Democrat could wish for. Limited experience, shrill and cheesy when she speaks, and no foreign policy experience whatsoever. I cannot wait for the Veep debates -- I think Biden will be charming and respectful and wipe the floor with her.

BTW, I plan to indulge in partisan politics this week and not watch one single minute of the Republican convention, and for a number of reasons:

1. I cannot afford blood pressure medication, which is hellishly expensive, and listening to people crow about how wonderful Shrub is and what a fine job his administration has done over the past eight years is bound to do something hinky to my cardiovascular system.
2. I don't believe convention coverage does anything to change people's minds about how they're going to vote. I don't think the diehard Republicans watched last week any more than I'm planning to watch this week.
3. I can't stand listening to McBush, and when he tries to smile or be funny it creeps me out.
4. You just know they're going to try to make Iraq sound like a success. HOW DARE THEY???
5. The music will be awful, I'm betting -- the worst country stuff, like a bad vacation in Branson. No R & B like last week! ;D
6. Mrs. McBush really creeps me out. Kind of a cross between a Barbie doll and a Stepford Wife, or is that the same thing?
7. I really do not want to listen to anyone talk about the fine job the Republicans have done on the third anniversary of Katrina, especially when a Category 5 storm is once again barrelling toward the Gulf Coast and they still haven't fixed the levees sufficiently. Actually, I should be happy the Republicans are holding their convention this week, since Katrina was one of Bush's worst failures (and there are so many from which to choose), and that will surely be mentioned by the talking heads.

So I am going to indulge in a lovely Law & Order marathon and get back to my needlepoint. ;D

[shmeep]

I would have had plenty to say about all that has happened this week but…I’ve been to a wedding in Ohio and couldn’t really spend the time it would take to think it through and reply.

First of all…the Democratic Convention was amazing, especially ending as it did on such a high note. As Jon Stewart said, showing a clip of the stadium full of cheering people and flashing cameras, it was the first acceptance speech visible from space. Just perfect. I found the speech itself as impressive—if not more so—than the venue. He got John McCain so nervous he inspired him to up and grab his own “change candidate” VP selection to try to steal some of that thunder and momentum. Interesting approach, wouldn’t you say? Stephen Colbert (and yes, I do get all my news from Stewart and Colbert—not true, but they sure do put things into perspective) did a funny bit about that on his special Friday edition show last week. He expressed shock and wondered who the “sexy librarian” woman was and then got a “talking points” fax and was able suddenly to come up with all the reasons why this was a brilliant VP choice.

I’m as baffled as anyone but…not surprised at the same time. It shows desperation and a serious lack of judgment. We all know that. And it’s also terribly insulting to women to assume they’ll vote for another woman based solely on gender and that one woman is interchangeable with any other. The whole thing is absolutely insane. Oh, and McCain and Palin look really creepy together. Conventional logic tells me this can only backfire. She’ll emphasize his age and that he chose her for political gain and not based on her qualifications. The Republicans keep saying the Dems can’t talk about her lack of experience because they nominated Obama, but I think the opposite is true. Now McCain has lost his most persistent argument because going after Obama’s lack of experience will only emphasize who he has chosen as his running mate. I know all this in my heart, just as I know Biden will wipe the floor with Palin during a debate and as I know people won’t fall for any of this. And yet…I can’t quite give in to any feeling of delight. I don’t trust it.

Here’s what I fear. Expectations will be so low that all she’ll have to do, as Bush did before her, is show up to the debate and not make an ass of herself and she’ll be proclaimed the winner, no matter how brilliant Biden is. She’s fundamentally opposed to all I hold dear, but she’s not stupid. Not ready or qualified, but not stupid and I think her lack of stupidity alone will make her appear better than she is.

Here’s another thing that has me concerned: The hurricane. As you probably know, the Religious Right made a video they now claim is a joke, telling all the Christians to pray for rain of Biblical Proportions to hit during Obama’s acceptance speech. Well, the weather was fine and now a hurricane is approaching New Orleans and threatening to ruin the entire Republican Convention. On the surface, this looks like a disaster for the GOP, but I’m not so sure. McCain is already towing his running-mate around the pre-disaster area and trying to do…something…to look presidential. Like he did during Katrina?


Anyway, now that Katrina looms over the Republican party as one of the many horrendous failures of Bush’s way-too-long presidency, they’re all hyper sensitive about appearing to have fun as a hurricane is destroying areas where poor and/or black people live. (I just have to say…how perfect is it that we have all these photos of Bush celebrating McCain’s birthday with him as Katrina hit?) I was feeling a little sorry for the GOP because, after all the success of the Dems last week, they may have a split-screen convention or no convention at all and it hardly seemed fair to McCain. But I should have known better. I think this hurricane might be just what the Republicans think they need in order to thrust McCain into the spotlight during a disaster in order to emphasize once again how he is who you want in charge during an emergency (see above photo). I’ve heard that Bush and Cheney will no longer be at the convention. Um…no one wanted them there anyway so this is good for their party. And now McCain is saying we should put country above politics by…politicizing the hurricane? I guess the GOP is going to turn their convention into a fundraiser for all those who will be losing their homes. It’s sickening.

And Obama can’t go negative on them for that.

I just hope the Dems are finding a more genuine way of helping out.

Here’s what my brother had to say about Palin’s speech when McCain introduced her:

I think this says it all: So when Biden's son introduced his dad, he mentioned not being around for the election, but didn't elaborate. Of course we know it's because he's going off to serve in Iraq, but he didn't want to make a huge issue out of it. Contrast that to Palen's speech this morning, announcing her as McCain's VP. She said 4 of her 5 children were with her, but that their son enlisted on Sept. 11 of last year, and he's shipping off to Iraq on this Sept. 11, and the crowd exploded into chants of "USA, USA, USA," (I was amused that earlier in the speech, they also enthusiastically chanted "SPORTS, SPORTS, SPORTS" after she mentioned sports). The difference here is that Biden's son didn't want his service to this country used as a political ploy. Obviously the Republicans have no such sense of shame with these matters.

I just like to quote my brother. He and I have constant back-and-forth rants these days.

[matilda]

Polls saying neck and neck right now? I am with you on Palin Mags, I've never been of the any woman is better than any man-type feminist view and she really does reinforce it, what worries me is the half a percent theory in this context.

I have to say, you people are fantastic. I love your commentary - it really is the best I get.

Thanks

M

[mlm828]

We could hear the sighs of relief all the way out here on the West Coast, when it was announced Bush and Cheney would not attend the GOP convention. Now there's talk the Shrub may speak to the convention via satellite. Like mags, I'm not sure my blood pressure could stand much viewing of this convention. But there might be some entertainment value in seeing McCain, Palin, and all the others trying to distance themselves from Bush without being too obvious about it.

I can't decide if it's an advantage or a disadvantage for the convention to be truncated. They now get to present themselves as all public-spirited and apolitical (yeah, right) by calling on people to help the hurricane victims. I only hope people don't forget that the disastrous bungling of the response to Katrina was on their watch. The conventional wisdom is that the convention is a big opportunity for the party to get its message out. But part of me thinks it would only help the Democrats for people to get a good long look at the Republicans and their candidates, so the abbreviated convention may not be such a good thing after all.

The whole Palin business just gets weirder and weirder. Her 17-year-old unmarried daughter is pregnant, and the right wing is OK with that. (Just another triumph for "abstinence-only" education, I guess). Can you imagine the howls of outrage, not to mention the thinly-disguised appeals to racism, if Obama had an unmarried teenage daughter? I guess it's OK for Palin, because the religious right think of her as one of them. I still say if you're going to talk the talk, you have to walk the walk.

I'm also wondering why the social conservatives (the self-styled "family values" folks) don't have a problem with a mother of five, including a "special needs" infant and a pregnant teenager, basically abandoning her family to campaign for national office. The hypocrisy of it all is definitely getting to me.

Still, her biggest problem may be "Troopergate," but we'll have to see how that one plays out.

Here's a thoughtful article by someone who thinks Palin may just be the worst Vice-Presidential nominee in history.

There is also rather comprehensive coverage of all of these issues by the Anchorage Daily News.

[shmeep]

So thought provoking as usual, Martha. I love talking politics with you.

Sept 2, 2008 1:10:28 GMT -5 mlm828 said:

The conventional wisdom is that the convention is a big opportunity for the party to get its message out. But part of me thinks it would only help the Democrats for people to get a good long look at the Republicans and their candidates, so the abbreviated convention may not be such a good thing after all.

Yes. It's a fun a puzzling issue and I think the Republicans know the less people see of them in their current state, the better it is for them. I'm a little upset we don't get to see them roll out the bitter (and really lame) convention they originally planned. Now, whenever they are compared with the Dems, they will just blame the hurricane and not their own party.

Sept 2, 2008 1:10:28 GMT -5 mlm828 said:

(Just another triumph for "abstinence-only" education, I guess).

Karma for that line. I was thinking the same thing, but didn't put it so well.

Sept 2, 2008 1:10:28 GMT -5 mlm828 said:

I'm also wondering why the social conservatives (the self-styled "family values" folks) don't have a problem with a mother of five, including a "special needs" infant and a pregnant teenager, basically abandoning her family to campaign for national office. The hypocrisy of it all is definitely getting to me.

I agree it's strange the Right suddenly doesn't have a problem with this, but...I don't have a problem with it either. Of course it's difficult for anyone to leave their family for long periods of time and campaign, but one assumes her husband is around to take care of the kids and...would anyone really give this a thought if she were a man? Men leave their little ones all the time when they have bigger and better things to do so why shouldn't women? It's not a choice I would personally be able to make, but I don't intend to attempt to take over the world (in anything other than a subliminal way, that is) so I doubt if I'll ever be in that situation. That's one issue I'll happily leave alone. You're right, Martha. Troopergate is a bigger deal anyway. And her past membership of the Alaskan Independence Party--a group supporting Alaska breaking away from the United States and becoming its own country. They say Obama isn't American enough? Palin was in favor of breaking an entire state away from the U.S. and voluntarily becoming a foreigner.

I really think McCain didn't vet this woman very well. I heard she filled out a seventy-question form and met him once before he made the decision. Oh, and it was said she had an FBI background check, but the FBI said that, while they investigated others on McCain's short list, Sarah Palin wasn't among them so...yeah. Did anyone ever hear of McCain having a VP committee like Obama did? Obama's vetting process was so stringent Jim Webb put himself out of consideration because he didn't want to go through it and Hillary refused to do it unless it was already a foregone conclusion she was going to be selected (which is strange in and of itself...she only wanted to be vetted if the decision was made in advance, therefore eliminating the real need for any vetting??). I've heard the Clinton's might not have passed Obama's vetting process because of some shady-looking money issues surrounding Bill and Asian countries and the funding of his presidential library so that could be why they didn't want to be vetted. I think it was gracious of Obama to make it look like it was his decision not to select her when it was clearly really hers. He's taken some real heat for that.

So...if Hillary Clinton would have suffered during Obama's vetting process, can you imagine Obama making the asinine selection of Sarah Palin? McCain now claims to have known about the pregnancy, about the Alaskan Independence Party affiliation, and about Troopergate but I think his campaign may have admitted to not knowing about the July interview in which Palin talks about having no idea of what a vice president does. Yeah, that's the biggest challenge here. I don't think he knew much of anything about this woman. Such an interesting race!

Oh, someone on either The Daily Show or Colbert (I forget which, but I think it was Colbert) decided to help Palin out by telling her what a VP does. A VP breaks ties in the senate and shoots old men in the face. Then there was a clip of Sarah Palin with a huge rifle (that looked semi automatic to me) shooting at targets. Heh.

Modified to add:

I found this comparison of Obama and Palin. Interesting.

[mlm828]

"Just so we're clear": I don't have a problem with Sarah Palin making her career her top priority. I do have a problem with her doing so while spouting the social conservatives' party line. It's the hypocrisy I find so objectionable.

This morning, I caught a few minutes of some Republican politician claiming Palin has more foreign policy experience than Obama because she supposedly has dealt with Canada on unspecified "energy issues." Right. Dealing with a friendly country (assuming she did so) is wonderful preparation for handling the snakepit of the Middle East. I still can't believe the guy was able to keep a straight face when he said that.

By the way, the last time I checked, foreign policy is a function of the federal government. States don't get to make their own foreign policies. As usual, the GOP is showing its ignorance of that inconvenient document known as the United States Constitution.

[shmeep]

Sept 2, 2008 12:37:57 GMT -5 mlm828 said:

"Just so we're clear": I don't have a problem with Sarah Palin making her career her top priority. I do have a problem with her doing so while spouting the social conservatives' party line. It's the hypocrisy I find so objectionable.

I know what you mean and I agree with you. My main comment about that before was expressing surprise that the conservatives in her base suddenly have no problem with it. That she does it at all is fine. That she supposedly embodies all that is pro family while doing it makes her a hypocrite--or her followers. Or both. Whatever. The woman is an embarassment and at the risk of sounding catty, I really don't know how long I can take such an assault to my senses. Between looking at her hair and listening to her voice...I really can't take much more of either.

[shmeep]

I admit it. I watched part of the Republican Convention last night. As much as my stomach could handle. I heard Bush's eight minutes via satellite (can't risk another Bush/McCain hug moment, I guess) and I tried to get through Fred Thompson's very detailed talk about all John McCain suffered in Viet Nam. All he did was to convince me that anyone who has endured such suffering must be mentally unbalanced by now. Joe Lieberman was nauseating. To hear them all talk, Sarah Palin is a "breath of fresh air" and just what the Republicans have always wanted and needed. That's why there's so much talk--even online betting with real money--about whether or not she will bow out (or be dumped) before the election. I loved Lieberman saying, about Obama, that eloquence is fine but that there's no substitute for experience. He has the gall to say that? Heh. This morning on Air America, they called him Traitor Joe. Very apt.

Really, I only watched so I could see what the folks at MSNBC would say about it once it was (finally) over. Of course by then, I was sleepy and only caught bits of it with the subconscious part of my mind so that didn't help. I think I'll skip it tonight. I really don't know if I can stomach Sarah Palin's speech.

There are lots of interesting things out there about the possibility of John McCain having Alzheimer's. Some pretty compelling video footage. I saw one clip of McCain arguing a point in 1992 in the Senate and he was clear and sharp and made every point brilliantly. Then there was footage of him on the stump today, mixing up countries, garbling sentences, and looking generally confused. I don't know if it's Alzheimer's, but he's not very sharp these days. He continues to grow in creepiness, though. I'm getting so I'm developing a tic every time I hear his weaselly nasally voice say "my friends." And last night Fred Thompson and Joe Lieberman said it repeatedly throughout their speeches.

[inuvik]

Believe it or not, we may be having an election in Canada before you guys do. Our PM is about to break his own law on fixed election dates and call one. (It should not be until next fall). Unbelievable. All the polls also show that we will wind up with exactly what we have now--a minority Conservative government.

We are all just shaking our heads at the arrogance of it all and needless expense.

[mlm828]

The following photo is a fake. But it's too funny not to share it:



I also got a chuckle from this cartoon in the morning paper, referring to the Republican ticket as "Geezer and Gidget." ;D

Sept 3, 2008 10:52:13 GMT -5 shmeep said:

There are lots of interesting things out there about the possibility of John McCain having Alzheimer's. Some pretty compelling video footage. I saw one clip of McCain arguing a point in 1992 in the Senate and he was clear and sharp and made every point brilliantly. Then there was footage of him on the stump today, mixing up countries, garbling sentences, and looking generally confused. I don't know if it's Alzheimer's, but he's not very sharp these days. He continues to grow in creepiness, though. I'm getting so I'm developing a tic every time I hear his weaselly nasally voice say "my friends." And last night Fred Thompson and Joe Lieberman said it repeatedly throughout their speeches.

I don't know whether McCain has Alzheimer's, but I can say this. My father had Alzheimer's, and my mother always maintained it affected him long before the signs and symptoms became noticeable. Not very reassuring, is it? Even if he doesn't have Alzheimer's, what you describe could simply be normal signs of aging. I am already on record as believing McCain is too damn old to be President, and your observations confirm it.

Based on your avatar, it seems he could also be at risk for a massive stroke. I shudder to think what might happen if that occurred. Remember the Wilson administration, when Wilson suffered a massive stroke, and his wife was de facto President? I can see it now -- Sarah Palin and Cindy McCain running the country. Yikes!

About the annoying use of "my friends," that was Reagan's pet phrase, and they're trying to seem like old Ronnie.

I haven't watched much of the convention. As previously stated, my blood pressure can't take it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but one subject they seem to be avoiding is the economy. Why am I not surprised?

[matilda]

OK this Palin piece of work is REALLY wigging me out.

Re mlm's wonderfully incisive comments earlier this week about the whole parenting thing, lots of women have repeated same to me subsequently - you are so ahead of the game Ms Martha.

Anyhoo big day here in our wonderful State of NSW today. Progressive woman elected as Deputy Premier. A positive note.

Cheers

M

[hoosier]

Obama made a stop in Terre Haute today. Here is a website that has what he said and some pictures..

www.tribstar.com

Look for the article that says Obama rebukes Palin and click.