Second Sight discussion

[shmeep]

I know a lot of you never watched this show and that my recap is as close as you'll come, but feel free to comment if anything comes to mind. Or not. I'm kind of doing this right now for my own entertainment. It's much easier to make fun of than Blind Justice is, so I'll probably only work on it when I'm feeling particularly snarky and need an outlet.

[Katryna]

admin said:

I know a lot of you never watched this show and that my recap is as close as you'll come, but feel free to comment if anything comes to mind. Or not. I'm kind of doing this right now for my own entertainment. It's much easier to make fun of than Blind Justice is, so I'll probably only work on it when I'm feeling particularly snarky and need an outlet.

Shmeep - This is hilarious. You are doing the British entertainment industry a great service as they take themselves far too seriously with this one. Not only are you doing this recap for your own entertainment - you are doing it for mine. I can hardly wait for your next snarky moment! By the way - I have Second Sight on tape, so have watched all of the episodes. Clive is no Ron, but he's not hard to take. Great screen caps!

[maggiethecat]

Shmeep, you are a complete crack-up.

Love, love, love Clive Owens, but I have to say . . . is it me, or is this character in the Mickey Rourke Club of men who don't bathe as often as they need to? Or was sweat used to show extreme emotion?

More, we want more!

[shmeep]

maggiethecat said:

Love, love, love Clive Owens, but I have to say . . . is it me, or is this character in the Mickey Rourke Club of men who don't bathe as often as they need to? Or was sweat used to show extreme emotion?

It's not just you! I think it may be just the role of Ross Tanner because Clive Owen doesn't seem too sweaty or under-bathed in other roles. I think this is an extremely manly character, oozing testosterone all over the place (and you thought it was sweat!) and I think he was supposed to be a little grubby. The cigarette. The alcohol. The swearing. The scowl. The furrowed brow. The sweat. The unwaxed chest . And he's not even in particularly good shape. He looks nice, but he doesn't have that "I work out regularly" look to him. I kind of admire him for that because it made him so very real. I can almost smell the bed-head/morning-breath combo at times when I look at him. When this character puts on a suit for a special occasion, it stands out more because of how we've seen him look in other scenes.

I always thought that, in sharp contrast, Ron Eldard as Jim Dunbar looks almost impossibly clean and buff and coiffed and shaved. Even in morning bed-head shots, my thoughts veer more toward the "wow" end of the spectrum and I never give a thought to morning breath. Jim Dunbar just looks like a clean-living healthy guy just as Ross Tanner looks like a hard-living guy who doesn't take care of himself. Then again, Jim is married and Ross is divorced. That could have something to do with it. Or maybe Ron Eldard just looks cleaner (and smells better) than Clive Owen.

Wow. I really didn't expect to go there.

[mlm828]

admin said:

I think it may be just the role of Ross Tanner because Clive Owen doesn't seem too sweaty or under-bathed in other roles. I think this is an extremely manly character, oozing testosterone all over the place (and you thought it was sweat!) and I think he was supposed to be a little grubby. The cigarette. The alcohol. The swearing. The scowl. The furrowed brow. The sweat. The unwaxed chest . And he's not even in particularly good shape. He looks nice, but he doesn't have that "I work out regularly" look to him. I kind of admire him for that because it made him so very real. I can almost smell the bed-head/morning-breath combo at times when I look at him. When this character puts on a suit for a special occasion, it stands out more because of how we've seen him look in other scenes.

This is too funny! But you're absolutely right. I got the same impression when watching Second Sight.

admin said:

I always thought that, in sharp contrast, Ron Eldard as Jim Dunbar looks almost impossibly clean and buff and coiffed and shaved. Even in morning bed-head shots, my thoughts veer more toward the "wow" end of the spectrum and I never give a thought to morning breath. Jim Dunbar just looks like a clean-living healthy guy just as Ross Tanner looks like a hard-living guy who doesn't take care of himself. Then again, Jim is married and Ross is divorced. That could have something to do with it. Or maybe Ron Eldard just looks cleaner (and smells better) than Clive Owen.

Wow. I really didn't expect to go there.

I'd go with your first interpretation and attribute the differences to the roles the actors are playing, not the actors themselves.

I often wondered, when watching Blind Justice, how Jim could turn up at a crime scene so perfectly put-together, when he'd been called out on short notice, first thing in the morning. Maybe he's just a morning person?

Your recap is hilarious, but I'm a little concerned that you may have too much time on your hands. Be that as it may, I'm looking forward to more, and I can't wait to see what you do with "Parasomnia."

Edited to change where I was quoted. I meant to say "role" and obviously not "roll" and I simply couldn't leave it once I realized my mistake.--shmeep

[shmeep]

mlm828 said:

Your recap is hilarious, but I'm a little concerned that you may have too much time on your hands. Be that as it may, I'm looking forward to more, and I can't wait to see what you do with "Parasomnia."

Thank you and please don't worry. As many of you know, my current job assignment leaves me with lots of down time at a computer so doing a little recapping from memory from time to time is a lovely diversion. I have time on my hands, but never ever too much. I'm sure I could be much more productive, but how would that be fun?

And Parasomnia! I can't wait for that one either. It makes so little sense and will be so fun to make fun of. The little darting nightmare guy, the bloody nightgown, the "Kung Fu Fighting" dance at Elvis Pewsey's house...all delightful! And all that deeper-than-thou pontificating on the part of the suspect during interviews. Seriously. Who talks like that? Oh, that should be fun. In the meantime, I think I'm actually going to watch them again. I have the gist of all the stories, but I really must get some verbatim quotes from that ninny Tully just to prove that the writers must have hated her. "Do I appear to have an IQ in two digits?" Trying too hard to be funny but ending up just being wordy and making Americans everywhere go, "huh?"

[greenbeing]

Quote from Housemouse:

Ok, here's the thing. They have been showing these on BBC America, so I have been TIVOing them. I have a couple of questions/issues.

Is it clear to anyone how much and how often his sight is affected? I mean he moves around like he can't see a thing, but then we see him roller blading. Roller blading through the streets of London would seem a pretty big risk for a guy losing his sight. When we see from his perspective, the view is blurry, maybe a bit murky, but he still has sight.

What is the deal with the gal who has agreed to help him? What happened in her past that the one woman was so upset with her?

Finally, how many episodes are there? So far I have seen four.

I got to see this on dvd a couple months ago, and I remember how the intro lady kept going on and on about him rollerblading. But I don't actually remember it happening! When exactly was that?

Sounded like his sight came and went, getting v. blurry, then clearing up. But in the later eppies, the special effect changed, so it seemed much clearer, instead of the weird star shapes in the first.

From your questions, I feel like I watched an entirely different show. I do remember Tully was not a big hit because she supposedly completely screwed up the last big investigation they were on, involving an ice cream truck (from which I love Shmeep's recap comment about the "ice cream dirge to torment her") and some cocaine. This was her second chance. Perhaps the woman found out Tully was sleeping with the boss? Selling herself for a leg up, so to speak?

--GB

[housemouse]

Oops, I totally put this in the wrong place. My bad.

housemouse said:

Ok, here's the thing. They have been showing these on BBC America, so I have been TIVOing them. I have a couple of questions/issues.

Is it clear to anyone how much and how often his sight is affected? I mean he moves around like he can't see a thing, but then we see him roller blading. Roller blading through the streets of London would seem a pretty big risk for a guy losing his sight. When we see from his perspective, the view is blurry, maybe a bit murky, but he still has sight.

What is the deal with the gal who has agreed to help him? What happened in her past that the one woman was so upset with her?

Finally, how many episodes are there? So far I have seen four.

[housemouse]

greenbeing said:

I got to see this on dvd a couple months ago, and I remember how the intro lady kept going on and on about him roller blading. But I don't actually remember it happening! When exactly was that?

I am pretty sure they are the first and second episodes. The first case is of the teenage boy who was murdered on his parent's estate, that is a two parter. If I remember correctly he roller bladed before his eyesight started going in the first episode. Then in the second he was roller-blading again, only this time his sight was slipping and he had to grab a pole. BTW, Clive Owen does not seem like the roller blading or hat wearing type, so I didn't like those things.

greenbeing said:

Sounded like his sight came and went, getting v. blurry, then clearing up. But in the later eppies, the special effect changed, so it seemed much clearer, instead of the weird star shapes in the first.

I figured it was coming and going, but I am having trouble figuring out the degree of change. It sounds like the problems get more pronounced as the series progressed.

greenbeing said:

From your questions, I feel like I watched an entirely different show. I do remember Tully was not a big hit because she supposedly completely screwed up the last big investigation they were on, involving an ice cream truck (from which I love Shmeep's recap comment about the "ice cream dirge to torment her") and some cocaine. This was her second chance. Perhaps the woman found out Tully was sleeping with the boss? Selling herself for a leg up, so to speak?

Did you see the one with the somnambulist? I saw that one first and that confuses me even more. In that one he is being helped by his faithful partner, some guy. Tully isn't in the picture at all. He even gets grief from the partner's wife because she is worried he will take the helpful partner down with him if he falls.

[greenbeing]

housemouse said:

I am pretty sure they are the first and second episodes. The first case is of the teenage boy who was murdered on his parent's estate, that is a two parter. If I remember correctly he roller bladed before his eyesight started going in the first episode. Then in the second he was roller-blading again, only this time his sight was slipping and he had to grab a pole.

That's odd, as I don't remember him roller-blading once, much less twice. And I was on a look-out for it, as the lady kept hawking it. "DCI Ross Tanner is at home in the fast lane, on rollerblades..." yada-yada-yada. But perhaps I was too busy waiting for the "ice cream dirge" explanation!


[quoteI figured it was coming and going, but I am having trouble figuring out the degree of change. It sounds like the problems get more pronounced as the series progressed.[/quote}

I thought it would progress, too, but it actually seemed to get better, in terms of how much he could see, but worse, in terms of the duration of blurriness. The bit that made me question how much he could see was at the end of that eppie with the college kid, where Tanner's son does the ear pull thing (nice touch, I thought, sort of a "their thing," like the mountain was the thing with the other kid's dad), and he can't see it at all.

Did you see the one with the somnambulist? I saw that one first and that confuses me even more. In that one he is being helped by his faithful partner, some guy. Tully isn't in the picture at all. He even gets grief from the partner's wife because she is worried he will take the helpful partner down with him if he falls.

There were bits I had to watch several times over! The thing on the roof? Where the guy is standing behind him in the rain, and then he fell... I hadn't noticed the skylight behind him, and how he would have jerked back into it when the other guy fell...

Oh, that was the first eppie ending, which is like two hours long. With the twins. I think Shmeep was right in terms of the BBC taking themselves so utterly seriously, and sounding so intelligent because they have nifty accents, but really overwriting. The whole twin thing made me laugh because it's such a soap opera.

Anyway, yes, I saw Parasomnia. I think I understood that one best. At least, the plot of it was easiest to follow. Although I missed the bit where the younger guy thought he was drunk. It was a convoluted speech, so I thought he'd completely figured out the eye thing, the same way Tully had. In Parasomnia, Tully quit because Tanner was having a bad day and he was depressed that he had to rely on her. So I thought that was just wrong of her to completely quit, even going over his head! Miss "let's see if you can match your own socks." Not only that, but then she broke up with him, too.

To take Tully's place, is Elvis Pewsey, with the wife. I guess I don't blame them for worrying about messing with protocol, because they probably would have both been fired if someone had found out. Elvis had been friends with Tanner for a long time, it seemed, but they weren't very close.

The bit with the phone confused me at first. It was so totally blatant that he was "forgetting" it on the counter. It was also odd that he could see perfectly when she was around. I was disappointed that nothing ever came of that, even though he asked the doctor about it.

--GB

[greenbeing]

Eppies:

Second Sight 1 (with the twins)

Second Sight 2 (three eppies)--Hide and Seek, Parasomnia, Kingdom of the Blind

--GB

[mlm828]

housemouse said:

I am pretty sure they are the first and second episodes. The first case is of the teenage boy who was murdered on his parent's estate, that is a two parter. If I remember correctly he roller bladed before his eyesight started going in the first episode. Then in the second he was roller-blading again, only this time his sight was slipping and he had to grab a pole. BTW, Clive Owen does not seem like the roller blading or hat wearing type, so I didn't like those things.

Did you see the one with the somnambulist? I saw that one first and that confuses me even more. In that one he is being helped by his faithful partner, some guy. Tully isn't in the picture at all. He even gets grief from the partner's wife because she is worried he will take the helpful partner down with him if he falls.

I'm not sure what you've seen so far. They're all two-part episodes -- a total of four. The first is, as you state, the case of the teenage boy murdered on his parents' estate. The second one ("Hide and Seek") involved the murder of a violinist. Her son was played by Tom Fenton ("Draco Malfoy"). It sounds as if you haven't seen this one, which explains why you don't know what happened with Tully. The episode with the somnambulist ("Parasomnia") was the third. The fourth one is called "Kingdom of the Blind." Apparently you haven't seen that one yet.

I only remember the roller blading near the beginning of the first episode, but it's been a while since I've watched the series.

greenbeing said:

From your questions, I feel like I watched an entirely different show. I do remember Tully was not a big hit because she supposedly completely screwed up the last big investigation they were on, involving an ice cream truck (from which I love Shmeep's recap comment about the "ice cream dirge to torment her") and some cocaine. This was her second chance. Perhaps the woman found out Tully was sleeping with the boss? Selling herself for a leg up, so to speak?

As I recall, the other woman detective blamed Tully for her brother's being seriously injured (shot?) on an operation that Tully was in charge of and "cocked up" (as Tully admits to Tanner at some point). She thought a guy was dealing coke from an ice cream truck, but he wasn't. The guy who wasn't a coke dealer thought the cops were bad guys attacking him, and he fought back. The brother was then forced to retire from the Force. This all occurred before Tully joined Tanner's unit, I believe.

[housemouse]

mlm828 said:

I'm not sure what you've seen so far. They're all two-part episodes -- a total of four. The first is, as you state, the case of the teenage boy murdered on his parents' estate. The second one involved the murder of a violinist. Her son was played by Tom Fenton ("Draco Malfoy"). It sounds as if you haven't seen this one, which explains why you don't know what happened with Tully. The episode with the somnambulist ("Parasomnia") was the third. The fourth one is called "Kingdom of the Blind." Apparently you haven't seen that one yet.

Show the show runs for a total of eight hours, is that correct?

[mlm828]

housemouse said:

Show the show runs for a total of eight hours, is that correct?

The first episode was three hours in all (two parts, 90 minutes each). The other three (which are collectively called "Second Sight 2") were two hours each (two parts, 60 minutes each). So the total is nine hours.

[shmeep]

Yay! Some SS discussion!

First off, I'd like to clear up the whole roller-blading issue. I've watched the series repeatedly. I wrote the first part of the recap from memory. I never once saw Ross Tanner on roller blades. I think that idea was planted in your subconscious by Diana Rigg during her intro. The part where Ross falls and grabs a pole happens during one of his strange visual hallucinations. He often got the feeling he was falling, but it was really "falling into a new consciousness," as his doctor explained. It had something to do with his brain adjusting to the changes in his vision.

It's impossible to tell how much he is supposed to be able to see at any given times. It was one of the most challenging aspects of the series--and one they handled with the least skill, in my opinion. As with Blind Justice, I believe they never should have tried to show what things looked like to Ross. His acting always provided better clues than that stupid special effect. His finger trailing the wall, the confusion on his face as he entered a room full of people, the way he counted steps and failed to put on his tie properly. He explained in "Hide and Seek" that it looked like he was trying to see through wax paper. That's a much better description than what they attempt to show us. We know he couldn't see to read print. We know he missed some visual cues but got others. Think how much less confusing we would have found his vision loss had we been able to let our imagination mesh with Clive Owen's acting. What was described and what we saw of him never did match what we were shown from his perspective.

Here's one thing I always thought was rather brilliant about the SS series. We know many of his hallucinations were really his subconscious giving him clues and helping him to put things together. Sometimes I understood the images (like the soap bubbles in "Kingdom of the Blind" that gave him a hint about who was behind the whole thing) and sometimes the images made no sense at all (like the weird shots of tree branches in "Parasomnia"). BUT, one thing we do know is that Tanner couldn't trust his eyes--so neither could we. Did his eyes really clear up whenever Kerry was nearby? I don't know. It's possible his brain tricked him into believing they did but that it had some other meaning. His brain could have been trying to show him her guilt. Did he really see both twins together in the first episode? We saw them both through his eyes--and we heard their conversation, but we know one was dead. This means that Jack Kenworthy figured out immediately that Tanner could barely see (he made repeated references to it in a snide way throughout) and used it to his advantage, playing with Tanner's mind and staging the whole thing. He entered his house and had a conversation as both brothers right in front of Tanner and Tanner went away believing he had seen them both. Kenworthy did the same thing on the roof, speaking in two voices. Tanner saw him as both people, even knowing one was dead. As contrived as much of it was, I do love that we as viewers were mislead by Tanner's eyes as much as he was.

So...if they could have found a way to show us some of the tricks his eyes were playing without constantly bombarding us with that effect they used to try and show us how things actually looked, that might have been good, although I have no idea how both could be possible.