Second Sight discussion

[Kasman]

inuvik said:

Just reviewing some of shmeep's posts in preparation for watching. It got me wondering:

Is this for real? Is there actually a disease that causes temporary blindness over and over? Or is this just Hollywood making a disease that is convenient for the plot?

Oh yes, it exists.

www.moorfields.nhs.uk/Eyehealth/Othereyeconditions/Azoor

[inuvik]

Thanks kasman.

[Kasman]

inuvik said:

Thanks kasman.

YW. There's a few more webpages now on this condition than when I first saw the show.

I'm wondering why they chopped the skateboard scene out of the DVDs. *wanders off scratching head*

[inuvik]

Ok, well thanks to the library I am almost done all the episodes now. And---I liked them! Maybe it was because I had read all this stuff first, so I knew what to expect (and I was expecting the worst)

But I didn't really find it unrealistic, or improbable, or any other synonyms that have been used here.

For someone just diagnosed, it seemed very realistic. He was definitely still in denial and anger of the 5 stages of grief. I also think he was very much still grieving the dissolution of his marriage, missing his child, and getting used to the fact that his wife now has a new man.

He didn't seem stereotypically masculine at all to me. And as for the crime stuff, I even enjoyed that! British things do tend to move at a slower pace, with more dialogue, and that's just fine with me.

And now, can't end this without a gush---wow, do I enjoy watching Clive, and he's great in this. Swoon. I will never get over the fact that he wasn't picked for Bond, he was always the one I was hoping would get it! (Daniel Craig is OK, and yes I saw the movie. But no matter how good he was, he's blond, and no--I still think Bond should be tall, dark and handsome. And Clive is the tallest, darkest, most handsome English actor I know of!).

[inuvik]

I know I'm coming late to the Second Sight party, but I hope someone is still reading this.

I'll be watching the final hour tonight of Kingdom of the Blind, so I am basically done.

What I have wondered is why the series did not address Tanner's not driving. You think someone (besides the new guy who replaced Tully) would have wondered why he is no longer driving. What did he say to people? How did he address why he needs to constantly ask people for rides? To me, this does seem a big plot hole.

All I can think of is maybe he claimed money problems for selling his car. Although, co-workers are never sympathetic to bosses crying poor, so that seems unlikely. Any ideas?

[maggiethecat]

So glad you finally saw the whole series, inuvik.

I haven't watched Second Sight since it since it first ran on PBS about seven or eight years ago, so I'm working from memory here, but I seem to remember Tanner letting people think that he didn't drive because he had a drinking problem. In the first series, when he had the redheaded woman for a partner, I also seem to remember that she knew about his condition and covered for him by simply grabbing the car keys on a number of occasions. As I said, it's been years so I'm not sure of the details . . . but weren't there a number of occasions when Tanner had a drink and that caused comments or dirty looks?

Maybe I need to get it from the library and have a fresh look.

[shmeep]

Second Sight is full of little plot holes you start to notice more as you re-watch the series, but I never thought the no-driving thing was one of them. It's true that he had Tully and "Elvis" covering for him throughout most of the series so he was able to make it appear that he had happened to carpool with them and then was stranded at one place or another most of the time. Also, I always thought that where he lived, right in the middle of London, was a place where a lot of people didn't need to drive much to get around so people at his work just assumed he was using public transportation a lot. He mentioned being "between cars" a couple of times early on and yes, he did let that adult Harry Potter-looking guy believe it was due to a drinking problem (hilarious moment, when he thinks Big Harry Potter is onto him and then sighs with relief when he realizes he has been mistaken for a drunk and not a blind guy). I think the car situation was just another way he was constantly dodging detection as he tried to always make it seem casual land natural not to be driving himself.

[krissie]

I have only the haziest recollection of Second Sight from when it was first shown on the BBC. However, I do know a bit about London -- I lived there for three years as a young adult. Shmeep is right; there would be nothing odd about someone living in the centre of London not owning a car. Indeed, I found the following nuggets of information from the Greater London Authority's website.

40 per cent of London households do not own a car.

Cars and vans are only used by 10% of people as the main mode to work in central London. This compares to 64% in outer London and 76% in the rest of Great Britain.

I think the road pricing schemes have come into force since Second Sight was filmed, but now you have to pay to drive into the centre of London. (I'm not sure of the details; I've never had reason to find out.) As a result, levels of car ownership have gone down in recent years.

Krissie

[mlm828]

I have no doubt that someone could live in London, as in NYC, and get along just fine without a car. However, I do question whether homicide detectives would take public transportation to a crime scene.

I agree with shmeep about the explanation for Tanner's not driving. It may have been suggested by a scene in the first show, where we see his car with a "For Sale" sign. So perhaps the explanation he offered (if he was asked) was that he'd sold his car and hadn't yet gotten around to replacing it. It also seems to me that, as the head of his squad or unit or whatever it was called, he could simply order one of his subordinates to drive him on the job, so people wouldn't question the fact that Tully or "Elvis" was driving him.

About the "Harry Potter" looking guy ("DI Boyd"), I always thought he looked like John Lennon. ;D

[inuvik]

Thanks guys.

admin said:

It's true that he had Tully and "Elvis" covering for him throughout most of the series so he was able to make it appear that he had happened to carpool with them and then was stranded at one place or another most of the time. Also, I always thought that where he lived, right in the middle of London, was a place where a lot of people didn't need to drive much to get around so people at his work just assumed he was using public transportation a lot.

That's true. I guess it's hard for me to imagine, living in "sprawl city, North America", that of course, there are places where you don't need a car!

mlm828 said:

I have no doubt that someone could live in London, as in NYC, and get along just fine without a car. However, I do question whether homicide detectives would take public transportation to a crime scene.

Me too--there is usually a sense of urgency to get there! (although remember Christie? "He'll still be dead!" )

I agree with shmeep about the explanation for Tanner's not driving. It may have been suggested by a scene in the first show, where we see his car with a "For Sale" sign. So perhaps the explanation he offered (if he was asked) was that he'd sold his car and hadn't yet gotten around to replacing it. It also seems to me that, as the head of his squad or unit or whatever it was called, he could simply order one of his subordinates to drive him on the job, so people wouldn't question the fact that Tully or "Elvis" was driving him.

Yes, I thought of the ordering of subordinates angle too. But since he presumably didn't before, because we saw him driving until his vision wouldn't allow it, I thought it would seem strange to the squad and they would wonder about it.

It was only Boyd who was thinking he was a drunk. We didn't have any indication that others thought it, although they might have. There were "significant glances" exchanged with Boyd after Tanner almost failed his firearms test.

You gotta wonder too, what he planned to say to Elvis when several months were up and his vision was no better? Kind of a dumb lie, but I guess he had to think quickly and maybe figured he could come up with a better lie/explanation later. (And of course, he retained hope that his vision would remarkably be restored).

Other thoughts about Second Sight:

Loved the part in part 1 where Tully exposes herself, and gets upset and tells Tanner it wasn't out of pity. Of course it wasn't--she's not blind!

Along the same lines, the part in Parasomnia where the suspect says Tanner is every woman's dream and why is he single? And he replies "it's one of life's little mysteries, eh". Yes, it is indeed!

Another couple of things I enjoyed as a Canadian:

* the reference to Toronto in Parasomnia. Not Toronto, Ontario, or even Toronto, Canada, just Toronto. Yay to the BBC for figuring their viewers were intelligent enough to either know where it is or look it up themselves.

* the reference to Canada in Kingdom of the Blind. "It's a great country. You can go snowboarding in winter, trekking in the summer. Think of the stories you'll have for your mates."

I do agree with the general thrust of this thread that the crimes themselves are fairly lame. In fact, they seemed to be more cheesy and lame as the series went on! Really, I thought part 1 was the best crime, and maybe they should have stopped there. But I'm also glad they didn't.

I'm disappointed there won't be any more! But I guess Owen is way too famous now as a movie actor to be going back to TV anytime soon.

[mlm828]

inuvik said:

It was only Boyd who was thinking he was a drunk. We didn't have any indication that others thought it, although they might have. There were "significant glances" exchanged with Boyd after Tanner almost failed his firearms test.

As I recall, Boyd thought Tanner had a drinking problem, because Boyd's father was a drunk. I, too, always liked the scene where Tanner thinks Boyd is onto him, but it turns out Boyd thinks Tanner is a drunk like his father. As has been mentioned before in this thread, it always seemed odd that Tanner's hand-picked team of detectives (most of them, anyway) weren't good enough detectives to figure out what was going on. However, by "Kingdom of the Blind" (if not earlier), they've all noticed their boss has changed, even if "Elvis" is the only one who's figured out the reason for it.

You gotta wonder too, what he planned to say to Elvis when several months were up and his vision was no better? Kind of a dumb lie, but I guess he had to think quickly and maybe figured he could come up with a better lie/explanation later. (And of course, he retained hope that his vision would remarkably be restored).

I always thought he was still in denial at that point and, as you state, held out hope for improvement.

[inuvik]

Edited to add: Some spoilers ahead!


Wow. Obviously, I should have waited until I watched the entire series before making my post yesterday. A lot of psychological "stuff" (to use the proper medical term ) happens in the final hour of Kingdom of the Blind! I think the last hour was the best of the whole series--we really see Tanner struggling to come to terms with his condition. And I didn't expect the ending where he resigned, guess I am a true BJ believer about blind cops.

I am a firm believer in Kubler-Ross' 5 stages of grief, and I think this series is an excellent example of it. The 5 stages overlap, and you can regress along the way, and Tanner does just that.

Second Sight 1 is where we see most of the denial and anger. As Shmeep points out, a very stereotypical, masculine anger, but anger nonetheless.

By the three episodes of Second Sight 2, he is beginning to move into bargaining, depression and acceptance (but still has times of the first two stages). I also notice that as the series progresses, he smokes less. I think the smoking was bound up in his anger and denial. I'm pretty sure he doesn't even light up once in Kingdom of the Blind.

Bargaining--we see him do this with his attitude of "if I can just keep my job, I can live with this". He also literally bargains with Tully and Elvis, to help him at work.

Depression--I don't think we see a lot of this. However, his insomnia is a manifestation. We also see him brood a lot towards the end of the series. He is starting to realize that the control he thinks he must exercise at work is affecting his managerial style. He has changed from using congenial collaboration to issuing authoritarian orders. He doesn't share anymore, and his team is very upset by it.

Acceptance--perhaps resignation? I won't get into the whole "does one ever truly accept" debate. But by the end of the series, he is starting to mention the dreaded word even. "Paperwork is my blind spot". He is realizing that it won't ever get better, and by the time he shares that with Elvis, it is a real breakthrough. At that point he realizes it's over, "I was just buying some time" "Hope? Been though that, it's over". (My heart just broke for Tanner in that scene, and at the press conference).

I couldn't fall asleep last night--serves me right for watching right before bed! I also began thinking about the inevitable comparisons between Tanner and Jim. Why does Jim fight to continue, and knows he can still be a good cop, while Tanner realizes it's over? Could Tanner admit his vision impairment and continue? Once he had technological help, he could manage paperwork etc. And as "gov", he could delegate more and do a lot less in the field.

I think that part of it is simple personality differences. Jim wasn't hiding anything--he was blind. Plus, Jim is not the supervisor. And of course, the circumstances of the blinding. Jim was blinded in the line of duty and is a hero. Also, the regular cop's job is secure--we need policemen! And, as Jim told Galloway, "I'm a cop".

Tanner is going blind due to a medical disease. He is the head and probably feels he must be "a pillar of strength" for others. (Although it's pretty clear, they miss his old managerial style). The Special Murder Unit he heads also is new, and seems to be in some jeopardy in terms of its necessity and funding. He wouldn't want to jeopardize all that. As well, Tanner is grieving the dissolution of his marriage, coming to terms with impending blindness, and also now questioning his choice of profession. As he said in the coffee shop "I never really thought about it." "And now you are?" And he closed off again.

The happiness Tanner seems to have after leaving, and the choice of song for the last scene, seems to show that this is the right decision for him.

My. my, this is quite the novel! I'll end by saying that I thoroughly enjoyed Second Sight and it gave me a lot to think about. I urge those who can to see it again with fresh eyes, maybe in terms of the grief stages. It changed my perspective on the series.

Shmeep, are there any other great series out there you know about? I had never heard of Second Sight until your posts.

[inuvik]

Short post this time!

Looks like there might be a movie. If Owen is busy, let's hope they wait for him!

www.variety.com/article/VR1117963982.html?categoryid=10&cs=1

April 29/07
Universal eyes 'Sight'
Studio to adapt BBC miniseries
By DIANE GARRETT

Universal is homing in on a bigscreen version of "Second Sight," a 1999 BBC miniseries that starred Clive Owen as a detective struggling to solve a murder before he goes blind. His character joins forces with a femme detective to try to crack the case.

"Second Sight" aired Stateside on PBS and spawned a sequel, "Second Sight: Kingdom of the Blind."

Deal, which is still being finalized, calls for Angry Films' Susan Montford and Don Murphy to produce and series creator Paula Milne to exec produce. Montford and Murphy produced the upcoming Owen starrer "Shoot 'Em Up."

Owen is not attached to "Second Sight" at this point. He is busy with several other projects, including "Sin City 2" and "The Professional." He plays Sir Walter Raleigh opposite Cate Blanchett's Queen Elizabeth I in Universal's "The Golden Age," due this fall.

Angry Films is producing "Transformers" along with Lorenzo di Bonaventura, and is producing "While She Was Out," starring Kim Basinger.

ICM's Nick Reed repped Milne and the rights to the property.

[Katryna]

inuvik said:

Short post this time!

Looks like there might be a movie. If Owen is busy, let's hope they wait for him!

I know an out of work blond dude who would be perfect for the role if Clive is too busy.

[bjobsessed]

kathy said:

inuvik said:

Short post this time!

Looks like there might be a movie. If Owen is busy, let's hope they wait for him!

I know an out of work blond dude who would be perfect for the role if Clive is too busy.

And who might that be, Kathy?