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Post by housemouse on Apr 15, 2006 17:42:29 GMT -5
Clive Owen doesn't show a lot of range in this show. He seems to be wearing a scowl most of the time.
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Post by mlm828 on Apr 15, 2006 18:29:06 GMT -5
First off, I'd like to clear up the whole roller-blading issue. I've watched the series repeatedly. I wrote the first part of the recap from memory. I never once saw Ross Tanner on roller blades. I think that idea was planted in your subconscious by Diana Rigg during her intro. I was curious about this, because I did remember him rollerblading, so I watched the first episode a couple of days ago. Near the beginning of the episode, he is shown rollerblading when he is going to pick up his son, Sam. Now, I'm "pretty damn sure" it isn't Clive Owen on those rollerblades, but there are a couple of close-up shots which show Tanner is definitely on rollerblades. It's impossible to tell how much he is supposed to be able to see at any given times. It was one of the most challenging aspects of the series--and one they handled with the least skill, in my opinion. As with Blind Justice, I believe they never should have tried to show what things looked like to Ross. His acting always provided better clues than that stupid special effect. His finger trailing the wall, the confusion on his face as he entered a room full of people, the way he counted steps and failed to put on his tie properly. He explained in "Hide and Seek" that it looked like he was trying to see through wax paper. That's a much better description than what they attempt to show us. We know he couldn't see to read print. We know he missed some visual cues but got others. Think how much less confusing we would have found his vision loss had we been able to let our imagination mesh with Clive Owen's acting. What was described and what we saw of him never did match what we were shown from his perspective. I agree, for the most part. I didn't have a problem with showing what he was seeing during the episodes of blurred vision at the beginning of the series. I think that was helpful in showing the viewer what the problem was. However, Clive Owen is a good enough actor that he could have shown us what the character was experiencing, without the visual effects. You're absolutely right, they didn't give a clear picture of the vision loss, maybe because (as I recall) the three episodes in the second series were all written by different writers. It left me with the impression that his condition progressed from intermittent episodes of blurred vision to being blurred most or all of the time, but this wasn't always conveyed clearly. |
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Post by mlm828 on Apr 15, 2006 18:51:47 GMT -5
From shmeep's recap:
I have always found it difficult to compare the characters of Ross Tanner and Jim Dunbar, because they are at very different stages in their respective journeys. It's entirely possible that, a year later, Ross Tanner would have reached the same place where we see Jim Dunbar. Similarly, I think it's likely that Jim was resistant and angry like Tanner at times during the year between the shooting and the Pilot.
As for Tanner's hiding his vision problems "because blindness is weakness," that's a reasonable interpretation. However, I always went for the simple and obvious one: he was hiding his condition in order to stay on the job.
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Post by shmeep on Apr 17, 2006 11:02:39 GMT -5
Clive Owen doesn't show a lot of range in this show. He seems to be wearing a scowl most of the time. I have to agree with you. It's not that there's anything lacking in his performance, but his character is surly and full of himself right from the start and then doesn't exactly grow so I imagine he was not encouraged to show much happiness. He does have a lot of nice subtle touches that keep it from being too flat. Those tears in his eyes, the attitude he adopts when he tells his son what's going on, some of his wry humor throughout the series (although it did verge on bitter more often than not). So...I'm not ready to blame Clive Owen. I've seen him do some spectacular work in other roles so I'll just say...let's blame the writing! |
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Post by shmeep on Apr 17, 2006 11:24:26 GMT -5
I was curious about this, because I did remember him rollerblading, so I watched the first episode a couple of days ago. Near the beginning of the episode, he is shown rollerblading when he is going to pick up his son, Sam. Now, I'm "pretty damn sure" it isn't Clive Owen on those rollerblades, but there are a couple of close-up shots which show Tanner is definitely on rollerblades. Aha! I have only seen the version I taped off of PBS and there is no rollerblading scene in the entire thing so I thought poor Mouse was going crazy. Here's what probably happened. My version is slightly edited. It goes straight from him lying in bed trying to see his blurred watch to ringing the doorbell at his ex-wife's house. No rollerblading! I never did buy the first episode on DVD--although I do have the rest--but I'll bet I'll notice a few additions if I ever do see that version. You're absolutely right, they didn't give a clear picture of the vision loss, maybe because (as I recall) the three episodes in the second series were all written by different writers. It left me with the impression that his condition progressed from intermittent episodes of blurred vision to being blurred most or all of the time, but this wasn't always conveyed clearly. Paula Milne created the series and wrote all the episodes except for "Hide and Seek" so there goes that excuse for their lack of continuity. Blind Justice had a lot of different writers and they managed to keep things pretty consistent. They never did make his vision loss clear and that irks me. I was under the impression that, after the first episode, it was always blurry at best (except when he looked at that Kerry woman  ) and sort of got worse from time to time. Impossible to say, since they did such a lousy job clarifying. I have always found it difficult to compare the characters of Ross Tanner and Jim Dunbar, because they are at very different stages in their respective journeys. It's entirely possible that, a year later, Ross Tanner would have reached the same place where we see Jim Dunbar. Similarly, I think it's likely that Jim was resistant and angry like Tanner at times during the year between the shooting and the Pilot. Of course that's all true. We never did get to see how Jim fared from the start so we can't compare the two characters very easily when it comes to their perspectives on blindness. I do, however, feel the attitudes toward blindness conveyed by the shows as a whole can be compared. Blind Justice shows us something after it's already largely overcome but then deals with the (often ignorant) reactions of others. Second Sight never even gets to that point and the audience is never given any positive outlook for Ross Tanner. All we know is that he quits his job. We're never even allowed to see the reactions of all his coworkers after they find out (something I was waiting for throughout the entire series). As for Tanner's hiding his vision problems "because blindness is weakness," that's a reasonable interpretation. However, I always went for the simple and obvious one: he was hiding his condition in order to stay on the job. That is the simple and obvious reason for his actions. He comes out and says he needs to keep working because he can't take going home and just letting it happen to him. That makes sense and, for that reason, he needed to hide it. I just wish there could have been a way he could have come clean and worked something out, even if he stayed on as a consultant. The entire drama and angst for Second Sight revolved around his blindness remaining a secret, rather than around how he was handling it or how it was changing him as a person. Well, we saw it made him a complete asshole, but we didn't get to see much of what was behind that and that was a huge opportunity missed on the part of the writers. |
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Post by mlm828 on Apr 17, 2006 16:44:11 GMT -5
Paula Milne created the series and wrote all the episodes except for "Hide and Seek" so there goes that excuse for their lack of continuity. Blind Justice had a lot of different writers and they managed to keep things pretty consistent. You are absolutely right. I had the impression -- incorrect, as it turns out -- that Paula Milne was not involved in the second series of three episodes. Blind Justice shows us something after it's already largely overcome but then deals with the (often ignorant) reactions of others. Second Sight never even gets to that point and the audience is never given any positive outlook for Ross Tanner. All we know is that he quits his job. We're never even allowed to see the reactions of all his coworkers after they find out (something I was waiting for throughout the entire series). I, too, really wanted to see the reactions of the coworkers after they found out, and was disappointed that we didn't see it, except in a limited way with Pewsey and Boyd. I also agree that we were never given any "positive outlook" for Tanner -- unless quitting his job was meant to show he's no longer in denial and is going to deal with the situation. On the other hand, he could have decided to quit because he knew discovery of his condition was inevitable (even if Boyd didn't blow the whistle on him). I just wish there could have been a way he could have come clean and worked something out, even if he stayed on as a consultant. The entire drama and angst for Second Sight revolved around his blindness remaining a secret, rather than around how he was handling it or how it was changing him as a person. Well, we saw it made him a complete asshole, but we didn't get to see much of what was behind that and that was a huge opportunity missed on the part of the writers. I'm not sure being a "complete asshole" was that much of a change for Tanner.  |
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Post by housemouse on Apr 21, 2006 12:33:38 GMT -5
All right, now I have watched most of this and I have a couple of opinions to share.
First, he was using Tully. He used her as his eyes and sex partner and when she wasn't his eyes anymore, he was done with the sex part. That is really jerky.
Second, they did a lousy job of using visual effects to show his failing sight (as shmeep has noted). I mean come on, sometimes it looked like he was seeing everything in a fun-house mirror, sometimes he seemed to be looking through a kaleidescope, and sometimes he just seemed to need a strong pair of prescription lenses. I agree that they should have left portraying the loss of sight to Clive Owen alone, he could have done much better with his physical movements and facial expressions.
Speaking of facial expressions, this series brought to mind the old chestnut my mom used to trot out "if you keep making that face, your face will freeze that way." DCI Tanner's face appeared frozen in a permanent scowl. I know I mentioned this before, but I found it disconcerting. I found myself watching very closely to see if he had any other expressions. Even during the sex scenes and the character's interaction with his boy, the underlying mood always seemed to be bitchy. Yes, I would probably be bitchy too if I was a DCI and losing my sight to some strange virus - but with the kid he could lighten up a bit. Shmeep, you mentioned you saw performances where Mr. Owen shows range, please tell me what they are, I enjoy looking at him and would like to see him actually appearing to act rather than just be pissed off.
I thought the ending of the violinist murder one was a red herring. The boy did it?! Oh come on!!! They couldn't have come up with something more creative than that? The boy did it? That child didn't go on to become the evil Draco Malfoy until years later.
I know Blind Justice, I have seen Blind Justice, and this show is no Blind Justice.
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Post by maggiethecat on Apr 21, 2006 15:53:35 GMT -5
I know Blind Justice, I have seen Blind Justice, and this show is no Blind Justice. Karma to you for the spit take I did when I got to this line, and for the clock at the bottom of the post (we live in hope). You bet I remember the reference! |
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Post by Dreamfire on May 21, 2006 4:05:55 GMT -5
I'd like to see this, anyone know where I could buy a copy of the DVDs? I couldn't find them?
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Post by greenbeing on May 21, 2006 23:48:42 GMT -5
Amazon has them, but Overstock.com has a better price.
Oddly, I looked, and there is absolutely no rollerblading in the first eppie!
--GB
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Post by kytdunne on May 22, 2006 2:18:15 GMT -5
Not sure if this will help the ongoing back-and-forth re: the rollerblading or not, but from the ep where Tanner's condition is diagnosed:  Kyt |
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Post by greenbeing on May 22, 2006 17:10:53 GMT -5
Not sure if this will help the ongoing back-and-forth re: the rollerblading or not, but from the ep where Tanner's condition is diagnosed: Kyt Well! There we have it! 'Twas not at all on the dvd I saw. How bizarre, how bizarre. Thanks for the images, Kyt! --GB |
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Post by inuvik on Jun 8, 2007 12:03:23 GMT -5
Whoo-hoo! Guess what my public library now has on DVD!
Yippee!!
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Post by hoosier on Jun 8, 2007 17:34:33 GMT -5
That's great. Our library recently acquired several British TV dvds but not Second Sight. A patron donated the money with the request that it be used for that purpose. Surprisingly, they are quite popular. I bought the video myself and really enjoyed it but, I'm sorry, Ross Tanner is no Jim Dunbar!  |
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Post by inuvik on Jun 12, 2007 15:29:20 GMT -5
Just reviewing some of shmeep's posts in preparation for watching. It got me wondering: Is this for real? Is there actually a disease that causes temporary blindness over and over? Or is this just Hollywood making a disease that is convenient for the plot?  |
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) and sort of got worse from time to time. Impossible to say, since they did such a lousy job clarifying. 
